|
|
Post by Pistola on Dec 6, 2021 12:59:56 GMT -8
It's easy. I don't believe the FIA will allow a driver at fault to become a champion. That's what you think, and it might be true, but where's the historical precedent for that (which you complained about me not knowing)? The 'precedents', afaik, are Senna being penalized and fined for intentionally crashing out his main WDC rival in 1990, and Senna winning the 1990 championship by intentionally crashing out his main WDC competitior, with no penalty. So what's the precedent then? Schumacher/Hill in '94 was the background incident which led to Schumacher/Villeneuve and the decision after the fact to DQ him for the season. He had lost the championship anyway when he beached the car but the FIA sent a clear message with the DQ. I think the 10 sec penalty was just a warning that any similar incident between Max and Lewis in Abu Dhabi will be dealt with. |
|
|
|
Post by hairyscotsman on Dec 6, 2021 13:05:07 GMT -8
That's what you think, and it might be true, but where's the historical precedent for that (which you complained about me not knowing)? The 'precedents', afaik, are Senna being penalized and fined for intentionally crashing out his main WDC rival in 1990, and Senna winning the 1990 championship by intentionally crashing out his main WDC competitior, with no penalty. So what's the precedent then? Schumacher/Hill in '94 was the background incident which led to Schumacher/Villeneuve and the decision after the fact to DQ him for the season. He had lost the championship anyway when he beached the car but the FIA sent a clear message with the DQ. I think the 10 sec penalty was just a warning that any similar incident between Max and Lewis in Abu Dhabi will be dealt with. Maybe so. Maybe not. But 3 very different decision outcomes in the span of 6 seasons 30 years ago isn't exactly some kind of strong precedent, or even a precedent at all, that should instantly spring to everyone's minds at your odd request. Thanks for proving my initial response to you. It's the FIA. They're all over the place with decisions, which is what I said. |
|
|
|
Post by pushtopass on Dec 6, 2021 13:45:13 GMT -8
I seem to remember that Sebastien Vettel also run into the back of someone in a race... but in his case, HE WAS punished and not the driver in the front. Recall that the data showed that in that case Lewis did NOT decelerate with vettel right behind him. See how that is not the same? Again, y'all might want to look at the videos. Max was about the middle of the course. Pretty much where he'd been on the other laps. Plus you can clearly see from his in-car camera that he is weaving (you can see if from Lewis' camera but on Max's you can watch the steering wheel go back and forth a few times). I realize it is easier to pretend that Lewis isn't a great driver but I can't figure out why this becomes so important to people. I tend to support drivers rather than oppose them. Again, hope y'all don't have strokes. |
|
|
|
Post by snuffmoviestar on Dec 6, 2021 13:50:01 GMT -8
I seem to remember that Sebastien Vettel also run into the back of someone in a race... but in his case, HE WAS punished and not the driver in the front. Recall that the data showed that in that case Lewis did NOT decelerate with vettel right behind him. See how that is not the same? Again, y'all might want to look at the videos. Max was about the middle of the course. Pretty much where he'd been on the other laps. Plus you can clearly see from his in-car camera that he is weaving (you can see if from Lewis' camera but on Max's you can watch the steering wheel go back and forth a few times). I realize it is easier to pretend that Lewis isn't a great driver but I can't figure out why this becomes so important to people. I tend to support drivers rather than oppose them. Again, hope y'all don't have strokes. Speaking for myself, IMHO Lewis is a great Driver. Possibly the Greatest. Still can't stand him. Oh, once again thank you for our health concerns. |
|
|
|
Post by mmi16 on Dec 6, 2021 13:51:31 GMT -8
Red Flags should only be used when the track is completely blocked. Using a Red Flag to remove a car that is simply into a wall or to remove debris are evidence of faulty track design. The use of the Virtual Safety Car to protect course marshals for simple debris removal is also BS. Sight line for both drivers and course marshals are inadequate and DANGEROUS. From a TV viewpoint, the 'up close & personal' camera locations with the quick swing in following the cars gives one vertigo in what gets displayed on the screen. The use of red flags and VSCs yesterday was completely appropriate in every instance. Appropriate ONLY BECAUSE the track is such a unraceable mess. |
|
|
|
Post by Boomer on Dec 6, 2021 14:11:35 GMT -8
Lewis is a spoiled brat! Which is not to say that he is the only one on the F1 grid. But he is - IMO - a virtue-signaling phony. And that is why I so strongly dislike him!
|
|
|
|
Post by Carlo_Carrera on Dec 6, 2021 14:21:36 GMT -8
The use of red flags and VSCs yesterday was completely appropriate in every instance. Appropriate ONLY BECAUSE the track is such a unraceable mess. There is nothing wrong the track. It is awesome. I hope they build and race on many more like it. What is wrong is that top level racing drivers apparently have a lot of trouble racing between the white lines. This circuit is you wet dream. Track limits are self enforced. |
|
|
|
Post by snuffmoviestar on Dec 6, 2021 14:23:15 GMT -8
Then answer your own question that you cried about me not answering. Or stop trolling. It's easy. I don't believe the FIA will allow a driver at fault to become a champion. This has already happened during the Lewis Hamilton era. |
|
|
|
Post by olderguysrule on Dec 6, 2021 14:32:33 GMT -8
The use of red flags and VSCs yesterday was completely appropriate in every instance. Appropriate ONLY BECAUSE the track is such a unraceable mess. Masi could have rad flagged the race a bit faster after Mick crashed. What did they do, 3-5 laps before he red flagged the race? But it wouldn't happened immediately as it took him a bit to see that the barrier needed serious repair. And those that did pit did so immediately. I mentioned this in the race thread. Think back to the 1st race in 2016. Ruth, the x ferrari tech was in the Haas backroom or where ever. She saw Alonso's crash and immediately told the Haas guys to stay out. They did, got the free tire change with the red flag. And scored big points. prolly worth millions. the calculated gamble in sundays race was to stay out. I don't watch the race on TV. I watch in on my computer. with a big hi def monitor. I looked at the crash and said to myself the barrier is f+++ed. |
|
|
|
Post by mmi16 on Dec 6, 2021 15:39:48 GMT -8
Appropriate ONLY BECAUSE the track is such a unraceable mess. There is nothing wrong the track. It is awesome. I hope they build and race on many more like it. What is wrong is that top level racing drivers apparently have a lot of trouble racing between the white lines. This circuit is you wet dream. Track limits are self enforced. Having trouble is one thing - NOT HAVING SIGHT LINES is something else. Not being able to see conditions ahead at the speeds the track permits has the direct potential to be deadly. Track limits are not self enforced - witness all the verbosity about 'giving back a position'. Were the track limit actually self enforced there would not have been a position to give back. Give drivers pavement and they are going to use it - painted lines be damned. |
|
|
|
Post by snuffmoviestar on Dec 6, 2021 15:45:25 GMT -8
There is nothing wrong the track. It is awesome. I hope they build and race on many more like it. What is wrong is that top level racing drivers apparently have a lot of trouble racing between the white lines. This circuit is you wet dream. Track limits are self enforced. Having trouble is one thing - NOT HAVING SIGHT LINES is something else. Not being able to see conditions ahead at the speeds the track permits has the direct potential to be deadly. Track limits are not self enforced - witness all the verbosity about 'giving back a position'. Were the track limit actually self enforced there would not have been a position to give back. Give drivers pavement and they are going to use it - painted lines be damned. I saw lots of walls around the Formula One race I watched on Sunday. The opinion of the track being dangerous made the race even better IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by Carlo_Carrera on Dec 6, 2021 16:08:24 GMT -8
There is nothing wrong the track. It is awesome. I hope they build and race on many more like it. What is wrong is that top level racing drivers apparently have a lot of trouble racing between the white lines. This circuit is you wet dream. Track limits are self enforced. Having trouble is one thing - NOT HAVING SIGHT LINES is something else. Not being able to see conditions ahead at the speeds the track permits has the direct potential to be deadly. Track limits are not self enforced - witness all the verbosity about 'giving back a position'. Were the track limit actually self enforced there would not have been a position to give back. Give drivers pavement and they are going to use it - painted lines be damned. Most of the tracks I have raced have limited sight-lines. That's why the flaggers are there. You got exactly what you wanted and you still complain. Your credibility is done. |
|
|
|
Post by pushtopass on Dec 6, 2021 16:10:52 GMT -8
There is nothing wrong the track. It is awesome. I hope they build and race on many more like it. What is wrong is that top level racing drivers apparently have a lot of trouble racing between the white lines. This circuit is you wet dream. Track limits are self enforced. Having trouble is one thing - NOT HAVING SIGHT LINES is something else. Not being able to see conditions ahead at the speeds the track permits has the direct potential to be deadly. Track limits are not self enforced - witness all the verbosity about 'giving back a position'. Were the track limit actually self enforced there would not have been a position to give back. Give drivers pavement and they are going to use it - painted lines be damned. When watching FP1 I thought to myself; they need a big-ass curb in that area on the inside of turn 2. |
|
|
|
Post by mmi16 on Dec 6, 2021 16:54:57 GMT -8
Having trouble is one thing - NOT HAVING SIGHT LINES is something else. Not being able to see conditions ahead at the speeds the track permits has the direct potential to be deadly. Track limits are not self enforced - witness all the verbosity about 'giving back a position'. Were the track limit actually self enforced there would not have been a position to give back. Give drivers pavement and they are going to use it - painted lines be damned. Most of the tracks I have raced have limited sight-lines. That's why the flaggers are there. You got exactly what you wanted and you still complain. Your credibility is done. Being blinded by the walls at 150 MPH+ that only give vision that will allow stopping without contact at 40 MPH is a recipe for disaster - a deadly disaster. |
|
|
|
Post by Carlo_Carrera on Dec 6, 2021 17:26:34 GMT -8
Most of the tracks I have raced have limited sight-lines. That's why the flaggers are there. You got exactly what you wanted and you still complain. Your credibility is done. Being blinded by the walls at 150 MPH+ that only give vision that will allow stopping without contact at 40 MPH is a recipe for disaster - a deadly disaster. You’re living in a dream world. You’ve raced at Watkins Glen. Zipping through the Esses is at 130+ miles an hour with no sight lines. You got exactly what you wanted in this race track and now you complain. Your credibility equals zero. |
|
|
|
Post by Boomer on Dec 6, 2021 17:38:45 GMT -8
A couple dozen cranes would help?  |
|
|
|
Post by Red_Hercules on Dec 6, 2021 19:54:12 GMT -8
Recall that the data showed that in that case Lewis did NOT decelerate with vettel right behind him. See how that is not the same? Again, y'all might want to look at the videos. Max was about the middle of the course. Pretty much where he'd been on the other laps. Plus you can clearly see from his in-car camera that he is weaving (you can see if from Lewis' camera but on Max's you can watch the steering wheel go back and forth a few times). I realize it is easier to pretend that Lewis isn't a great driver but I can't figure out why this becomes so important to people. I tend to support drivers rather than oppose them. Again, hope y'all don't have strokes. Speaking for myself, IMHO Lewis is a great Driver. Possibly the Greatest. Still can't stand him. Oh, once again thank you for our health concerns. Same here. I never said that Lewis is not a great driver. I just can't stand him as a person. (Ditto, all the other things people have said about him.) Does he work hard behind the wheel? If you can't see that, you got to be blind. Rosberg had to fight tooth-and-nail to win his WDC. I'm not going to go into discussions of car superiority and such. It still takes a "good" or "great" driver to make a superior car into a winning car. I never said that Senna was not a great driver. But I could not stand him and his antics. I liked "gentleman drivers", and his driving style was annoying, bordering on suicidal. And so was his attitude. I had seen so much death in the 70s, his driving scared me that more driver deaths were coming in the 80s. But was he a great driver? Oh, hell yeah. And he probably wasn't such a bad person despite his stand-offish manner and open hostility towards other drivers. Which is funny, because one of my favorite drivers from that era, Piquet, was a good-to-great driver, but it turns out, a terrible human being. And there were a great amount of people who thought that Schumacher was NOT a great driver. And the same people disliked him and his attitude (or competitive spirit). Hell, Verstappen has been described in this way, especially his first few years in the sport. Hell, I hated Vettel when he was driving for Red Bull, but it turns out he's a great human being -- at least now. But what is the definition of a great driver? Back in the day (oh, I don't know, late 80s maybe?) I read a bunch of interesting articles/stories and books about the racing drivers of old (1930s, 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.) The one that impressed me the most (these are all second-hand accounts by racing drivers, other racers, managers, friends, etc.) ? Juan Manuel FangioThis was a driver who I have only seen on film or reels. But he could drive the wheels of anything with 4-wheels. This was the same driver who could get behind the wheel of an old, dilapidated, 50s era auto with a column stick shift, and drive it effortlessly in heavy Mexican City traffic. And in the afternoon, he would win the GP. Have there been other drivers like him since? Maybe - Andretti, Lauda, a few other (some American drivers too.) Today's drivers are slaves to the engineering. If the engineering talent is great with a team, and the car is suited to their style of driving, a partnership can be formed between team and driver, and Mercedes and Lewis have a such a partnership. Anyway, sorry for the OFF TOPIC rant. Yes, I hate Lewis, BUT NOT as a driver. With what he has, and how he drives? He's just as great as his idol, Senna. |
|
|
|
Post by mmi16 on Dec 7, 2021 4:42:43 GMT -8
Being blinded by the walls at 150 MPH+ that only give vision that will allow stopping without contact at 40 MPH is a recipe for disaster - a deadly disaster. You’re living in a dream world. You’ve raced at Watkins Glen. Zipping through the Esses is at 130+ miles an hour with no sight lines. You got exactly what you wanted in this race track and now you complain. Your credibility equals zero. The Glen has much better sight lines through the Esses than anything that was displayed in Saudi Arabia. The Glen has elevation changes that provide additional sight references. |
|
|
|
Post by mikey on Dec 7, 2021 5:07:03 GMT -8
A couple dozen cranes would help? And that could be one takeaway for the next race, kinda like Monaco does |
|
|
|
Post by pushtopass on Dec 7, 2021 5:21:01 GMT -8
Speaking for myself, IMHO Lewis is a great Driver. Possibly the Greatest. Still can't stand him. Oh, once again thank you for our health concerns. Same here. I never said that Lewis is not a great driver. I just can't stand him as a person. (Ditto, all the other things people have said about him.) Does he work hard behind the wheel? If you can't see that, you got to be blind. Rosberg had to fight tooth-and-nail to win his WDC. I'm not going to go into discussions of car superiority and such. It still takes a "good" or "great" driver to make a superior car into a winning car. I never said that Senna was not a great driver. But I could not stand him and his antics. I liked "gentleman drivers", and his driving style was annoying, bordering on suicidal. And so was his attitude. I had seen so much death in the 70s, his driving scared me that more driver deaths were coming in the 80s. But was he a great driver? Oh, hell yeah. And he probably wasn't such a bad person despite his stand-offish manner and open hostility towards other drivers. Which is funny, because one of my favorite drivers from that era, Piquet, was a good-to-great driver, but it turns out, a terrible human being. And there were a great amount of people who thought that Schumacher was NOT a great driver. And the same people disliked him and his attitude (or competitive spirit). Hell, Verstappen has been described in this way, especially his first few years in the sport. Hell, I hated Vettel when he was driving for Red Bull, but it turns out he's a great human being -- at least now. But what is the definition of a great driver? Back in the day (oh, I don't know, late 80s maybe?) I read a bunch of interesting articles/stories and books about the racing drivers of old (1930s, 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.) The one that impressed me the most (these are all second-hand accounts by racing drivers, other racers, managers, friends, etc.) ? Juan Manuel FangioThis was a driver who I have only seen on film or reels. But he could drive the wheels of anything with 4-wheels. This was the same driver who could get behind the wheel of an old, dilapidated, 50s era auto with a column stick shift, and drive it effortlessly in heavy Mexican City traffic. And in the afternoon, he would win the GP. Have there been other drivers like him since? Maybe - Andretti, Lauda, a few other (some American drivers too.) Today's drivers are slaves to the engineering. If the engineering talent is great with a team, and the car is suited to their style of driving, a partnership can be formed between team and driver, and Mercedes and Lewis have a such a partnership. Anyway, sorry for the OFF TOPIC rant. Yes, I hate Lewis, BUT NOT as a driver. With what he has, and how he drives? He's just as great as his idol, Senna. Fair enough. On a side note I was always impressed that Lewis' first success was actually with RC cars. I get how some might translate but it still seems odd. |
|
Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8
Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8