jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Mar 22, 2022 9:35:53 GMT -8
Probably the latter, but not having done race sims in testing they didn't have the data the rest did about low fuel levels and it's effects on the part. Wait ... RB did no race sims in 6 days of testing? Do we know that? That's what the reports coming from the tests say, they did long runs but no 300 km race runs. |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Mar 22, 2022 12:23:59 GMT -8
I can throw a little doubt on that because Le Mans and WEC along with the ALMS have been using ethanol blends for years. Makes me wonder if the final diagnosis will point solely to the pumps. Thank you. That's my thought too. I just cannot believe that some of the best engineers in the world would not know how to handle an Ethanol blended gasoline. I know how specs are produced because I've been doing it for over 30 years. Are you telling me that Marelli were told to produce a pump, but were not told that the blend was 10% Ethanol? No. I don't buy it one bit. In the above video that is exactly what Scarbs said, that the plastic insulation around the electronics was breaking down due to the ethanol.
Just repeating what he said.
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jfme
Full Member
Posts: 576
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Post by jfme on Mar 22, 2022 12:45:12 GMT -8
I find it hard to believe that Marelli, a fuel components supplier would still use materials attacked by E10, a fuel used on the market for decades.
You would think such materials are on the "do not use" design guidelines and specs.
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jmjgt
Member
Posts: 3,311
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Post by jmjgt on Mar 22, 2022 13:19:54 GMT -8
I find it hard to believe that Marelli, a fuel components supplier would still use materials attacked by E10, a fuel used on the market for decades. You would think such materials are on the "do not use" design guidelines and specs. They're not exactly using pump gas here, most of the teams have exclusive fuel supply deals with who knows what blended in the mix, so it shouldn't be a surprise one is more caustic than another. I know there's certain compounds that aren't allowed in the gasoline part but i'm not sure about the ethanol component. The problem may not be E10 in general as much as RB's in particular. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Mar 22, 2022 13:22:29 GMT -8
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Post by Pistola on Mar 22, 2022 13:45:13 GMT -8
Thank you. That's my thought too. I just cannot believe that some of the best engineers in the world would not know how to handle an Ethanol blended gasoline. I know how specs are produced because I've been doing it for over 30 years. Are you telling me that Marelli were told to produce a pump, but were not told that the blend was 10% Ethanol? No. I don't buy it one bit. In the above video that is exactly what Scarbs said, that the plastic insulation around the electronics was breaking down due to the ethanol.
Just repeating what he said.
That was just one of two theories he mentions. The other was vapor lock. The fuel tank sits just in front of the pu but also right above the storage battery so heat induced vapor lock at low fuel levels could also be possible. Red Bull will be along to tell us the absolute truth.  |
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Post by Zytes on Mar 22, 2022 13:59:37 GMT -8
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Post by Zytes on Mar 22, 2022 14:02:12 GMT -8
From above article..
"The intriguing part of the story was that F1 fuel systems are now comprised of elements provided by the team, by the power unit manufacturer, and also by third parties who won FIA tenders to supply standard components to the whole grid – notably two types of fuel pump."
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Post by pushtopass on Mar 22, 2022 16:40:03 GMT -8
Wait ... RB did no race sims in 6 days of testing? Do we know that? That's what the reports coming from the tests say, they did long runs but no 300 km race runs. Bad strategy |
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Post by Zytes on Mar 23, 2022 8:47:47 GMT -8
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jmjgt
Member
Posts: 3,311
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Post by jmjgt on Mar 23, 2022 9:13:48 GMT -8
^ Those numbers are being shored up by the Hammy haters coming back.  |
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Post by truenorth on Mar 23, 2022 9:18:05 GMT -8
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Post by Zytes on Mar 23, 2022 9:34:19 GMT -8
" Helmut Marko reveals the cause of Red Bull's double retirement in Bahrain: "To put it simply. A vacuum in the gasoline supply system meant that the engine ran out of gasoline. I think we can solve the problem in Saudi Arabia at the weekend." German site. After double failure: Red Bull found errors |
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Post by boiler on Mar 23, 2022 9:38:05 GMT -8
I was right! It IS the ethanol attacking the pumps! Like I said before rookie lawn maintenance mistake....  |
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Post by boiler on Mar 23, 2022 9:41:32 GMT -8
Just curious why would running out of fuel lock the rear tires?
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Mar 23, 2022 9:56:27 GMT -8
Just curious why would running out of fuel lock the rear tires? When the engine shuts down so does the hydraulic system which means the transmission was still engaged and the driver couldn't disengage it via the clutch paddle. Everything was locked up. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Mar 23, 2022 10:29:52 GMT -8
" Helmut Marko reveals the cause of Red Bull's double retirement in Bahrain: "To put it simply. A vacuum in the gasoline supply system meant that the engine ran out of gasoline. I think we can solve the problem in Saudi Arabia at the weekend." German site. After double failure: Red Bull found errorsIt sounds like Marko the vampire is talking about the Venturi lift pumps. They’re not really pumps though they are connected to the fuel pump. They are more like snorkels that scavenge the fuel out of the deep recesses of the fuel cell. |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Mar 23, 2022 10:51:41 GMT -8
" Helmut Marko reveals the cause of Red Bull's double retirement in Bahrain: "To put it simply. A vacuum in the gasoline supply system meant that the engine ran out of gasoline. I think we can solve the problem in Saudi Arabia at the weekend." German site. After double failure: Red Bull found errorsIt sounds like Marko the vampire is talking about the Venturi lift pumps. They’re not really pumps though they are connected to the fuel pump. They are more like snorkels that scavenge the fuel out of the deep recesses of the fuel cell. Are these like the 'jet' pumps we used to use in the SCCA Sports 2000 'Pro' series? That series only allowed one pump, and we used these to scavenge the corners, working with suction from the main pump. Once they go dry, you lose your suction and you're screwed. |
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jmjgt
Member
Posts: 3,311
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Post by jmjgt on Mar 23, 2022 11:23:28 GMT -8
I was right! It IS the ethanol attacking the pumps! Like I said before rookie lawn maintenance mistake.... They need to clear the vent hole on the gas cap. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Mar 23, 2022 11:23:29 GMT -8
It sounds like Marko the vampire is talking about the Venturi lift pumps. They’re not really pumps though they are connected to the fuel pump. They are more like snorkels that scavenge the fuel out of the deep recesses of the fuel cell. Are these like the 'jet' pumps we used to use in the SCCA Sports 2000 'Pro' series? That series only allowed one pump, and we used these to scavenge the corners, working with suction from the main pump. Once they go dry, you lose your suction and you're screwed. Yes. |
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Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8
Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8