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Post by mikey on Jun 22, 2021 3:05:55 GMT -8
^thank you very much
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 22, 2021 7:40:57 GMT -8
The FIA instructs Pirelli to build shit for tires to 'improve the show'. What could be a better show than a big accident account tire failure!   I presume both RB and AM complied with the recommendations for whatever required inspections were performed to insure their compliance with the manufacturers recommendations. Whether those inspections were properly performed or not is on the FIA. I have no idea if the FIA is inspecting every tire that goes on the cars or not; id not that is again on the FIA and their inspection procedures. The FIA is the problem, not the solution. The tests are only done to stationary tires. When the teams say they met all the regs this is all they are admitting to. If you can create a situation in the race where your car runs the tire much cooler than the design is meant to be used there is a problem because the pressures are now lower. Much of it revolves around the 13 inch tire and the standing wave which is destructive to the sidewall/tread interface and it only gets worse when the tire pressure is not up. Why Pirelli hasn't successfully dealt with the standing wave is a good but unanswered question. All of which is under Pirelli's control. Pirelli needs to set testing parameter that mean something. It is doubtful that the teams will be able to cool a working tire below the ambient air temperature. It is very likely the teams may be able to cool the tires below the temperatures generated by Tire Warmers; so why are pressure tests being undertaken with tires in the warmers? |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Jun 22, 2021 13:23:21 GMT -8
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 22, 2021 14:37:21 GMT -8
Toto F'd up. Pure and simple. |
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Post by boomer on Jun 22, 2021 14:50:46 GMT -8
Grrrr...
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Jun 22, 2021 14:57:54 GMT -8
I still think if either Bottas or Hamilton had followed Max into the pits on the second stop there was good chance one of the Mercedes drivers would win the race. |
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Post by Pistola on Jun 22, 2021 15:15:19 GMT -8
The tests are only done to stationary tires. When the teams say they met all the regs this is all they are admitting to. If you can create a situation in the race where your car runs the tire much cooler than the design is meant to be used there is a problem because the pressures are now lower. Much of it revolves around the 13 inch tire and the standing wave which is destructive to the sidewall/tread interface and it only gets worse when the tire pressure is not up. Why Pirelli hasn't successfully dealt with the standing wave is a good but unanswered question. All of which is under Pirelli's control. Pirelli needs to set testing parameter that mean something. It is doubtful that the teams will be able to cool a working tire below the ambient air temperature. It is very likely the teams may be able to cool the tires below the temperatures generated by Tire Warmers; so why are pressure tests being undertaken with tires in the warmers? Pirelli is a vendor to F1. Maybe you have inside information on what they can do, I don't. |
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Post by boomer on Jun 22, 2021 15:42:41 GMT -8
This: The sidewall could be made more rigid - as with a larger wheel?  |
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 22, 2021 15:58:43 GMT -8
All of which is under Pirelli's control. Pirelli needs to set testing parameter that mean something. It is doubtful that the teams will be able to cool a working tire below the ambient air temperature. It is very likely the teams may be able to cool the tires below the temperatures generated by Tire Warmers; so why are pressure tests being undertaken with tires in the warmers? Pirelli is a vendor to F1. Maybe you have inside information on what they can do, I don't. As a vendor - they can set the use parameters of their products and if those products are brought into question as to their suitability - they would be remiss if they didn't set up use testing procedures so that they can protect their own asses. Pirelli did change the inflation pressure between Baku and Paul Ricard so they are setting parameter with the FIA's blessing and authority. |
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Post by snuffmoviestar on Jun 22, 2021 17:34:45 GMT -8
Pirelli is a vendor to F1. Maybe you have inside information on what they can do, I don't. As a vendor - they can set the use parameters of their products and if those products are brought into question as to their suitability - they would be remiss if they didn't set up use testing procedures so that they can protect their own asses. Pirelli did change the inflation pressure between Baku and Paul Ricard so they are setting parameter with the FIA's blessing and authority. Right. Then the Teams screw around and find their own ways to not follow the guidelines leading to tyre failures of their own fault. Followed by lies and denials.  |
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 22, 2021 18:34:07 GMT -8
As a vendor - they can set the use parameters of their products and if those products are brought into question as to their suitability - they would be remiss if they didn't set up use testing procedures so that they can protect their own asses. Pirelli did change the inflation pressure between Baku and Paul Ricard so they are setting parameter with the FIA's blessing and authority. Right. Then the Teams screw around and find their own ways to not follow the guidelines leading to tyre failures of their own fault. Followed by lies and denials. And then Pirelli puts the thinking cap on and devises methods - it is high tech tag. Eliminate Tire Warmers and you eliminate a lot of tire pressure obfuscation. |
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Post by mikey on Jun 22, 2021 18:45:42 GMT -8
Right. Then the Teams screw around and find their own ways to not follow the guidelines leading to tyre failures of their own fault. Followed by lies and denials. And then Pirelli puts the thinking cap on and devises methods - it is high tech tag. Eliminate Tire Warmers and you eliminate a lot of tire pressure obfuscation. It should also bring out the strategy problems teams have as each team brings out a car on 'cold' tires and tries to stay ahead of their rivals thru the under or over cut |
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 22, 2021 19:10:05 GMT -8
And then Pirelli puts the thinking cap on and devises methods - it is high tech tag. Eliminate Tire Warmers and you eliminate a lot of tire pressure obfuscation. It should also bring out the strategy problems teams have as each team brings out a car on 'cold' tires and tries to stay ahead of their rivals thru the under or over cut And find out who can handle 'cold' tires and who has issues, and who can bring tire up to operating temperature quickest and most effectively. In my experience, there is nothing as slick as cold race rubber. |
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jmjgt
Member
Posts: 3,311
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Post by jmjgt on Jun 22, 2021 20:31:44 GMT -8
Right. Then the Teams screw around and find their own ways to not follow the guidelines leading to tyre failures of their own fault. Followed by lies and denials. And then Pirelli puts the thinking cap on and devises methods - it is high tech tag. Eliminate Tire Warmers and you eliminate a lot of tire pressure obfuscation. No it won't because the FIA still needs a clear picture of the ACTUAL pressures the teams are putting into the tires hot or cold. Personally i think we're going to have to wait until the powers understand the new tires and cars before bans start being levied. F1 will be stepping into a whole new frame of reference. |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Jun 23, 2021 0:43:01 GMT -8
I still think if either Bottas or Hamilton had followed Max into the pits on the second stop there was good chance one of the Mercedes drivers would win the race. Lewis trailed Max closely for a number of laps after their first stops and could not get him. I don't think a repeat would have made a difference. |
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Post by mikey on Jun 23, 2021 1:39:25 GMT -8
And then Pirelli puts the thinking cap on and devises methods - it is high tech tag. Eliminate Tire Warmers and you eliminate a lot of tire pressure obfuscation. No it won't because the FIA still needs a clear picture of the ACTUAL pressures the teams are putting into the tires hot or cold. Personally i think we're going to have to wait until the powers understand the new tires and cars before bans start being levied. F1 will be stepping into a whole new frame of reference. Without tire warmers though won't the problem be up to the Teams to regulate the tire temps thru 'other' means ie magic buttons or rims with tubes in them etc? I know they are also going to a standard rim so tubes are gone soon but there should be other ways to either get rid of or add portions of a psi if needed, as long as the minimum is maintained. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Jun 23, 2021 6:28:57 GMT -8
I still think if either Bottas or Hamilton had followed Max into the pits on the second stop there was good chance one of the Mercedes drivers would win the race. Lewis trailed Max closely for a number of laps after their first stops and could not get him. I don't think a repeat would have made a difference. If one of the Mercedes drivers had shadowed Max and followed him in for the second stop Max would then have had to deal with chasing down the leading Mercedes while also defending from the Mercedes that shadowed him on equal tires. By shadowing the second stop it would have put pressure on the pit stop and throughout the entire race. Everything Max did would be under pressure. Passing Perez, navigating back markers, etc... |
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Post by pushtopass on Jun 23, 2021 7:44:00 GMT -8
Lewis trailed Max closely for a number of laps after their first stops and could not get him. I don't think a repeat would have made a difference. If one of the Mercedes drivers had shadowed Max and followed him in for the second stop Max would then have had to deal with chasing down the leading Mercedes while also defending from the Mercedes that shadowed him on equal tires. By shadowing the second stop it would have put pressure on the pit stop and throughout the entire race. Everything Max did would be under pressure. Passing Perez, navigating back markers, etc... Max had to be inch perfect to catch and pass Hamilton. That was also pressure. Note that while Hamilton (and bottas) was on his tail for a bit after Hamilton's pit stop, Max pulled out just over three seconds before he pitted. He was faster that day on that track in that car on those tires. But yes, added pressure would be good. |
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 23, 2021 11:53:16 GMT -8
And then Pirelli puts the thinking cap on and devises methods - it is high tech tag. Eliminate Tire Warmers and you eliminate a lot of tire pressure obfuscation. No it won't because the FIA still needs a clear picture of the ACTUAL pressures the teams are putting into the tires hot or cold. Personally i think we're going to have to wait until the powers understand the new tires and cars before bans start being levied. F1 will be stepping into a whole new frame of reference. What can be more fair and clear than measuring the pressures with the tires at the ambient temperature of the location just before they are fitted to the car, immediately after which the car departs onto the track for laps in anger. |
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Post by Pistola on Jun 23, 2021 14:49:17 GMT -8
Pirelli is a vendor to F1. Maybe you have inside information on what they can do, I don't. As a vendor - they can set the use parameters of their products and if those products are brought into question as to their suitability - they would be remiss if they didn't set up use testing procedures so that they can protect their own asses. Pirelli did change the inflation pressure between Baku and Paul Ricard so they are setting parameter with the FIA's blessing and authority. Pirelli the vendor is proposing a stiffer construction tire but of course it has to be with unanimous team approval. it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-pirelli-prepara-una-gomma-con-la-costruzione-piu-rigida/6597021/ |
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Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8
Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8