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Post by mmi16 on Jun 21, 2021 5:37:33 GMT -8
What actually happened - HAPPENED, and is now in the history books. Deal with it.
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Post by pushtopass on Jun 21, 2021 5:38:17 GMT -8
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Jun 21, 2021 10:06:06 GMT -8
It was the right call. Lewis could get close to Max but could not pass him right after their first stops. No reason to think he could have after a second stop.
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Post by olderguysrule on Jun 21, 2021 10:20:14 GMT -8
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Post by thirddegree on Jun 21, 2021 10:26:29 GMT -8
The Brits are relentless homers. Not just relentless homers, but insufferable homers. |
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Post by thirddegree on Jun 21, 2021 10:29:38 GMT -8
Second consecutive weekend Alonso out-paced Ocon in practice, qualifying and the race. Good stuff on 'Nando. He seems to be getting more acquainted with the car.
Ferrari seemed to have a pretty good day.
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Post by Pistola on Jun 21, 2021 10:38:05 GMT -8
I'm a bit puzzled why nobody has at least mentioned the fancy wheels designed to keep the tires cooler while running. Cooled gas/tires means lower pressures. |
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Post by olderguysrule on Jun 21, 2021 12:43:49 GMT -8
I'm a bit puzzled why nobody has at least mentioned the fancy wheels designed to keep the tires cooler while running. Cooled gas/tires means lower pressures. I liked the part where Checo worked with the guy for 7 years or so, then moved to the bulls, and took what he learned with him. :-) |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Jun 21, 2021 13:15:40 GMT -8
I'm a bit puzzled why nobody has at least mentioned the fancy wheels designed to keep the tires cooler while running. Cooled gas/tires means lower pressures. I liked the part where Checo worked with the guy for 7 years or so, then moved to the bulls, and took what he learned with him. :-) Me also, but I wonder what this means:
"Recall that it was this team – then named Force India – which first figured out you could get better stint durations from the 2013 Pirellis by mounting the rears back-to-front? "
Is it running the rears in reverse rotation?
Or is it mounting the tires with the inside of the wheel up rather than the outside, like this:
That is a term I have never heard before.
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 21, 2021 15:29:39 GMT -8
I liked the part where Checo worked with the guy for 7 years or so, then moved to the bulls, and took what he learned with him. :-) Me also, but I wonder what this means:
"Recall that it was this team – then named Force India – which first figured out you could get better stint durations from the 2013 Pirellis by mounting the rears back-to-front? "
Is it running the rears in reverse rotation?
Or is it mounting the tires with the inside of the wheel up rather than the outside, like this:
That is a term I have never heard before.
For a while - Hoosier was putting rotation arrows imprinted on the sidewall of their tires. I got talking with the Hoosier techs at the track and 'their' consensus was that the arrows actually meant nothing. Of course techs at the track are no necessarily Hoosier engineers. |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Jun 21, 2021 17:00:21 GMT -8
I liked the part where Checo worked with the guy for 7 years or so, then moved to the bulls, and took what he learned with him. :-) Me also, but I wonder what this means: "Recall that it was this team – then named Force India – which first figured out you could get better stint durations from the 2013 Pirellis by mounting the rears back-to-front? " Is it running the rears in reverse rotation? Or is it mounting the tires with the inside of the wheel up rather than the outside, like this: That is a term I have never heard before.
They were swapping sides and running them backwards, which was counter to how the tires were constructed. Remember they were having tread delamination failures back then and the teams were saying the tires were crap while Pirelli said they'd work if the teams ran them correctly. In the end the teams stopped swapping sides and Pirelli started using steel belts so we'll never know who was at fault. |
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Post by mikey on Jun 21, 2021 18:42:06 GMT -8
They were swapping sides and running them backwards, which was counter to how the tires were constructed. Remember they were having tread delamination failures back then and the teams were saying the tires were crap while Pirelli said they'd work if the teams ran them correctly. In the end the teams stopped swapping sides and Pirelli started using steel belts so we'll never know who was at fault. I don't understand how this helps? I've bought tires and had the whitewalls put on the inside rather than the outside is that what you mean by "swapping sides and running them backwards"? I know Corvettes etc have uni-directional tires but what would be the point of putting them on the wrong side? |
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 21, 2021 18:52:21 GMT -8
They were swapping sides and running them backwards, which was counter to how the tires were constructed. Remember they were having tread delamination failures back then and the teams were saying the tires were crap while Pirelli said they'd work if the teams ran them correctly. In the end the teams stopped swapping sides and Pirelli started using steel belts so we'll never know who was at fault. I don't understand how this helps? I've bought tires and had the whitewalls put on the inside rather than the outside is that what you mean by "swapping sides and running them backwards"? I know Corvettes etc have uni-directional tires but what would be the point of putting them on the wrong side? When you know that the manufacturers recommendation is causing the tires to fail - it becomes a 'lets try something different'. What do you have to lose? |
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Post by snuffmoviestar on Jun 21, 2021 18:54:46 GMT -8
I don't understand how this helps? I've bought tires and had the whitewalls put on the inside rather than the outside is that what you mean by "swapping sides and running them backwards"? I know Corvettes etc have uni-directional tires but what would be the point of putting them on the wrong side? When you know that the manufacturers recommendation is causing the tires to fail - it becomes a 'lets try something different'. What do you have to lose? The Teams not following the use guidelines caused the tyres to fail. Period. |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Jun 21, 2021 19:03:23 GMT -8
When you know that the manufacturers recommendation is causing the tires to fail - it becomes a 'lets try something different'. What do you have to lose? The Teams not following the use guidelines caused the tyres to fail. Period. That right there  |
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 21, 2021 19:06:21 GMT -8
When you know that the manufacturers recommendation is causing the tires to fail - it becomes a 'lets try something different'. What do you have to lose? The Teams not following the use guidelines caused the tyres to fail. Period. The FIA instructs Pirelli to build shit for tires to 'improve the show'. What could be a better show than a big accident account tire failure!   I presume both RB and AM complied with the recommendations for whatever required inspections were performed to insure their compliance with the manufacturers recommendations. Whether those inspections were properly performed or not is on the FIA. I have no idea if the FIA is inspecting every tire that goes on the cars or not; id not that is again on the FIA and their inspection procedures. The FIA is the problem, not the solution. |
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Post by Pistola on Jun 21, 2021 19:21:06 GMT -8
The Teams not following the use guidelines caused the tyres to fail. Period. The FIA instructs Pirelli to build shit for tires to 'improve the show'. What could be a better show than a big accident account tire failure!   I presume both RB and AM complied with the recommendations for whatever required inspections were performed to insure their compliance with the manufacturers recommendations. Whether those inspections were properly performed or not is on the FIA. I have no idea if the FIA is inspecting every tire that goes on the cars or not; id not that is again on the FIA and their inspection procedures. The FIA is the problem, not the solution. The tests are only done to stationary tires. When the teams say they met all the regs this is all they are admitting to. If you can create a situation in the race where your car runs the tire much cooler than the design is meant to be used there is a problem because the pressures are now lower. Much of it revolves around the 13 inch tire and the standing wave which is destructive to the sidewall/tread interface and it only gets worse when the tire pressure is not up. Why Pirelli hasn't successfully dealt with the standing wave is a good but unanswered question. |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Jun 21, 2021 19:54:03 GMT -8
The FIA instructs Pirelli to build shit for tires to 'improve the show'. What could be a better show than a big accident account tire failure! I presume both RB and AM complied with the recommendations for whatever required inspections were performed to insure their compliance with the manufacturers recommendations. Whether those inspections were properly performed or not is on the FIA. I have no idea if the FIA is inspecting every tire that goes on the cars or not; id not that is again on the FIA and their inspection procedures. The FIA is the problem, not the solution. The tests are only done to stationary tires. When the teams say they met all the regs this is all they are admitting to. If you can create a situation in the race where your car runs the tire much cooler than the design is meant to be used there is a problem because the pressures are now lower. Much of it revolves around the 13 inch tire and the standing wave which is destructive to the sidewall/tread interface and it only gets worse when the tire pressure is not up. Why Pirelli hasn't successfully dealt with the standing wave is a good but unanswered question. My answer is simple, that wheel/tire combo is past it's usefulness, the cars put more energy through them than they can handle. |
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Post by Pistola on Jun 21, 2021 21:01:52 GMT -8
The tests are only done to stationary tires. When the teams say they met all the regs this is all they are admitting to. If you can create a situation in the race where your car runs the tire much cooler than the design is meant to be used there is a problem because the pressures are now lower. Much of it revolves around the 13 inch tire and the standing wave which is destructive to the sidewall/tread interface and it only gets worse when the tire pressure is not up. Why Pirelli hasn't successfully dealt with the standing wave is a good but unanswered question. My answer is simple, that wheel/tire combo is past it's usefulness, the cars put more energy through them than they can handle. I couldn't agree more. In my mind the teams are the ones who held up any changes. The one exception is that Bridgestone used a different design for their tires and didn't have the same sudden failures. Then again Bridgestone never had to cope with the downforce, the cornering speeds, and the excessive weight of 2021 F1. They weren't far off in the days of the V10's when it came to HP but the last V8's couldn't pull shit. |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Jun 21, 2021 21:04:57 GMT -8
They were swapping sides and running them backwards, which was counter to how the tires were constructed. Remember they were having tread delamination failures back then and the teams were saying the tires were crap while Pirelli said they'd work if the teams ran them correctly. In the end the teams stopped swapping sides and Pirelli started using steel belts so we'll never know who was at fault. I don't understand how this helps? I've bought tires and had the whitewalls put on the inside rather than the outside is that what you mean by "swapping sides and running them backwards"? I know Corvettes etc have uni-directional tires but what would be the point of putting them on the wrong side? A directional all season street tire is designed to shed water away from the center of the tire, mounting it backwards would move water under the tire causing aquaplaning. High performance street tires put large tread blocks with smaller sipeing (grooves) on the outside shoulder. Running either backwards would increase wear in dry conditions. Race tires are different and the inner belts are layered to contend with the loads they'll (supposed to) be seeing with priority given to the outside shoulders. Their treads are also wound in a certain direction for the same reason. The teams were running them backwards to change their internal temp generation ( which is the main reason they screw with the pressures), but that put the weaker shoulder on the high stress side and created internal temps that separated the tread from the carcase. Pirelli thought the problem was their construction and had already started changing the belts when what the teams were doing came out. |
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Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8
Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8