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Post by wilmywood8455 on Oct 11, 2021 9:07:06 GMT -8
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Oct 11, 2021 11:25:19 GMT -8
Wolff Defends Mercedes, Says Hamilton’s Hesitance To Pit Cost Him Points“F**k, why’d you give up that space? We shouldn’t have come in. Massive graining man. I told you!” Hamilton seethed over the team radio. After the race, Hamilton stated that he felt as though he “should have stayed out.” Mercedes boss Toto Wolff said he supported the team’s call, stating that it was Hamilton’s delay in pitting which cost him a chance of a podium. Wolff justified the call, describing it as a measured response. The Austrian added that Hamilton “didn‘t see how much he was dropping off. It was clear that had he stayed out then he would have lost out to Gasly.” ________________________________________________________________________________________________________-
Brundle blames Hamilton for Turkey strategy blunder
Martin Brundle believes Lewis Hamilton made a mistake on staying out on worn tyres in Turkey, and put Mercedes “out of their stride” when he didn’t pit.
Hamilton was called in to change for fresh intermediate tyres with 16 laps remaining of the Turkish Grand Prix, but he opted to stay out as he felt the tyres would be able to last to the end.
However, the team eventually decided to make him come in with only a few laps left, to cover off those behind and avoid the possibility of a tyre blowout – but dropping down to P5 left the World Champion frustrated after the race, as he surrendered the lead in the title race to Max Verstappen.
Debate continued afterwards as to who was to blame for Hamilton’s strategy call, and the Sky F1 analyst feels the Mercedes driver was more at fault than his team.
“I think yesterday was a mistake on Lewis’ part,” Brundle told Sky Sports.
“We have seen him overrule the team [before] and it’s worked out very well, actually. For example, in Turkey last year, when he ran right through to the end and it was a glorious victory – one of his finest, actually.
“Yesterday, I think all Mercedes had to do was mimic, to an extent, what Red Bull were doing, try to minimise the pain of him taking an engine penalty and a grid penalty to go with that.
“So, I think Lewis put his team off balance. They did a bit of a No Man’s Land stop in the end. It was too late in the day for him to use the tyres, but they had to stop.
“I’m pretty sure if we looked at Esteban Ocon’s tyres in the Alpine, for example, it was down to the canvas and I think, if they had let Lewis run to the end, Pirelli say it wouldn’t have worked out.
“Common sense tells you it probably wouldn’t have worked out, but Lewis felt he wanted to do that.
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Post by struns on Oct 11, 2021 14:32:56 GMT -8
a Sky viewers comment.....
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Oct 11, 2021 14:56:33 GMT -8
Meanwhile Lulu tweets about how Ocon's no stopper means he was right to chew the team out, never mind the two places Ocon lost doing so.
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Post by mmi16 on Oct 11, 2021 15:28:35 GMT -8
Maybe that should be the new tire rules - start everybody on intermediates
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Post by mikey on Oct 11, 2021 16:13:05 GMT -8
Meanwhile Lulu tweets about how Ocon's no stopper means he was right to chew the team out, never mind the two places Ocon lost doing so. Wasn't Ocon doing slower laps than Lulu too? |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Oct 11, 2021 17:20:36 GMT -8
Maybe that should be the new tire rules - start everybody on intermediates And NO stops at all ... |
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jmjgt
Member
Posts: 3,311
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Post by jmjgt on Oct 11, 2021 18:39:16 GMT -8
Meanwhile Lulu tweets about how Ocon's no stopper means he was right to chew the team out, never mind the two places Ocon lost doing so. Wasn't Ocon doing slower laps than Lulu too? Yes, but he was doing slower laps than Sainz and Stroll who pitted, just like Lulu would have been doing slower laps than Perez and LeClerc. Merc wanted to give him a fighting chance when they called him in but Lulu knows best. |
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Post by mikey on Oct 12, 2021 2:28:18 GMT -8
Wasn't Ocon doing slower laps than Lulu too? Yes, but he was doing slower laps than Sainz and Stroll who pitted, just like Lulu would have been doing slower laps than Perez and LeClerc. Merc wanted to give him a fighting chance when they called him in but Lulu knows best. I think next time Lulu argues like that James should come on the radio and say 'let us know what you want to do then' and let him be until he asks for help. It's his Title to lose and t's not like the Team probably won't win the WCC anyway, the Team could also stop telling Bottas to move over for Lulu when he's on 'his own' strategy. |
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Post by olderguysrule on Oct 12, 2021 3:04:53 GMT -8
a Sky viewers comment..... Whenever I log on I have the option to watch the Spanish feed thru Xfinity. If I knew more than 5 or 10 Spanish words including Puta an Cheva, I'd watch the Spanish feed. |
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Post by pushtopass on Oct 12, 2021 3:52:32 GMT -8
Wolff Defends Mercedes, Says Hamilton’s Hesitance To Pit Cost Him Points“F**k, why’d you give up that space? We shouldn’t have come in. Massive graining man. I told you!” Hamilton seethed over the team radio. After the race, Hamilton stated that he felt as though he “should have stayed out.” Mercedes boss Toto Wolff said he supported the team’s call, stating that it was Hamilton’s delay in pitting which cost him a chance of a podium. Wolff justified the call, describing it as a measured response. The Austrian added that Hamilton “didn‘t see how much he was dropping off. It was clear that had he stayed out then he would have lost out to Gasly.” ________________________________________________________________________________________________________-
Brundle blames Hamilton for Turkey strategy blunder
Martin Brundle believes Lewis Hamilton made a mistake on staying out on worn tyres in Turkey, and put Mercedes “out of their stride” when he didn’t pit.
Hamilton was called in to change for fresh intermediate tyres with 16 laps remaining of the Turkish Grand Prix, but he opted to stay out as he felt the tyres would be able to last to the end.
However, the team eventually decided to make him come in with only a few laps left, to cover off those behind and avoid the possibility of a tyre blowout – but dropping down to P5 left the World Champion frustrated after the race, as he surrendered the lead in the title race to Max Verstappen.
Debate continued afterwards as to who was to blame for Hamilton’s strategy call, and the Sky F1 analyst feels the Mercedes driver was more at fault than his team.
“I think yesterday was a mistake on Lewis’ part,” Brundle told Sky Sports.
“We have seen him overrule the team [before] and it’s worked out very well, actually. For example, in Turkey last year, when he ran right through to the end and it was a glorious victory – one of his finest, actually.
“Yesterday, I think all Mercedes had to do was mimic, to an extent, what Red Bull were doing, try to minimise the pain of him taking an engine penalty and a grid penalty to go with that.
“So, I think Lewis put his team off balance. They did a bit of a No Man’s Land stop in the end. It was too late in the day for him to use the tyres, but they had to stop.
“I’m pretty sure if we looked at Esteban Ocon’s tyres in the Alpine, for example, it was down to the canvas and I think, if they had let Lewis run to the end, Pirelli say it wouldn’t have worked out.
“Common sense tells you it probably wouldn’t have worked out, but Lewis felt he wanted to do that.
One wonders why Hamilton wasn't given that information. His pace relative to others, for instance. Ocon made it work; Hamilton could have as well. |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Oct 12, 2021 4:16:52 GMT -8
Wolff Defends Mercedes, Says Hamilton’s Hesitance To Pit Cost Him Points“F**k, why’d you give up that space? We shouldn’t have come in. Massive graining man. I told you!” Hamilton seethed over the team radio. After the race, Hamilton stated that he felt as though he “should have stayed out.” Mercedes boss Toto Wolff said he supported the team’s call, stating that it was Hamilton’s delay in pitting which cost him a chance of a podium. Wolff justified the call, describing it as a measured response. The Austrian added that Hamilton “didn‘t see how much he was dropping off. It was clear that had he stayed out then he would have lost out to Gasly.” ________________________________________________________________________________________________________-
Brundle blames Hamilton for Turkey strategy blunder
Martin Brundle believes Lewis Hamilton made a mistake on staying out on worn tyres in Turkey, and put Mercedes “out of their stride” when he didn’t pit.
Hamilton was called in to change for fresh intermediate tyres with 16 laps remaining of the Turkish Grand Prix, but he opted to stay out as he felt the tyres would be able to last to the end.
However, the team eventually decided to make him come in with only a few laps left, to cover off those behind and avoid the possibility of a tyre blowout – but dropping down to P5 left the World Champion frustrated after the race, as he surrendered the lead in the title race to Max Verstappen.
Debate continued afterwards as to who was to blame for Hamilton’s strategy call, and the Sky F1 analyst feels the Mercedes driver was more at fault than his team.
“I think yesterday was a mistake on Lewis’ part,” Brundle told Sky Sports.
“We have seen him overrule the team [before] and it’s worked out very well, actually. For example, in Turkey last year, when he ran right through to the end and it was a glorious victory – one of his finest, actually.
“Yesterday, I think all Mercedes had to do was mimic, to an extent, what Red Bull were doing, try to minimise the pain of him taking an engine penalty and a grid penalty to go with that.
“So, I think Lewis put his team off balance. They did a bit of a No Man’s Land stop in the end. It was too late in the day for him to use the tyres, but they had to stop.
“I’m pretty sure if we looked at Esteban Ocon’s tyres in the Alpine, for example, it was down to the canvas and I think, if they had let Lewis run to the end, Pirelli say it wouldn’t have worked out.
“Common sense tells you it probably wouldn’t have worked out, but Lewis felt he wanted to do that.
One wonders why Hamilton wasn't given that information. His pace relative to others, for instance. Ocon made it work; Hamilton could have as well. Which information? "...if they had let Lewis run to the end, Pirelli say it wouldn’t have worked out."? |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Oct 12, 2021 4:36:43 GMT -8
One wonders why Hamilton wasn't given that information. His pace relative to others, for instance. Ocon made it work; Hamilton could have as well. Ocon didn't make it work. His pace fell off dramatically in the last couple of laps and he lost positions. The same thing would've happened to Hamilton. If he had stayed out he would've wound up where he finished anyway or his tires could've delaminated and DNFed. If Hamilton had simply followed the team's first request to pit he would've been battling Perez at the end for third place. No matter how do you slice it the team made the right call to bring Hamilton in and he ignored it. |
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Post by pushtopass on Oct 12, 2021 4:57:28 GMT -8
One wonders why Hamilton wasn't given that information. His pace relative to others, for instance. Ocon made it work; Hamilton could have as well. Which information? "...if they had let Lewis run to the end, Pirelli say it wouldn’t have worked out."? Wolff says Hamilton was not aware of how much he was dropping off. Why is that? Hamilton has made the right tire call a number of times. He's right next to them and looking at them. Would have have lost two positions? Maybe. Maybe not. I need to go back and look but it wasn't like the others were right on his tail. If Wolff says that Hamilton didn't have all the information (and Jenson noted that as well) then I wonder why. He should have the information. Jenson noted that if rain is coming then the team makes the call but on a drying track the driver usually does. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Oct 12, 2021 5:04:29 GMT -8
Which information? "...if they had let Lewis run to the end, Pirelli say it wouldn’t have worked out."? Wolff says Hamilton was not aware of how much he was dropping off. Why is that? Hamilton has made the right tire call a number of times. He's right next to them and looking at them. Would have have lost two positions? Maybe. Maybe not. I need to go back and look but it wasn't like the others were right on his tail. If Wolff says that Hamilton didn't have all the information (and Jenson noted that as well) then I wonder why. He should have the information. Jenson noted that if rain is coming then the team makes the call but on a drying track the driver usually does. What part this post didn't make sense to you? Ocon didn't make it work. His pace fell off dramatically in the last couple of laps and he lost positions. The same thing would've happened to Hamilton. If he had stayed out he would've wound up where he finished anyway or his tires could've delaminated and DNFed.
If Hamilton had simply followed the team's first request to pit he would've been battling Perez at the end for third place. No matter how do you slice it the team made the right call to bring Hamilton in and he ignored it.
The track wasn't drying. If you go back and watch it there were spots of rain hitting at certain corners throughout the entire race. Please tell me when Lewis made the right call? In Russia two weeks ago the team made the right call in the rain and got him the win. |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Oct 12, 2021 5:25:44 GMT -8
Wolff says Hamilton was not aware of how much he was dropping off. Why is that? Hamilton has made the right tire call a number of times. He's right next to them and looking at them. Would have have lost two positions? Maybe. Maybe not. I need to go back and look but it wasn't like the others were right on his tail. If Wolff says that Hamilton didn't have all the information (and Jenson noted that as well) then I wonder why. He should have the information. Jenson noted that if rain is coming then the team makes the call but on a drying track the driver usually does. What part this post didn't make sense to you? Ocon didn't make it work. His pace fell off dramatically in the last couple of laps and he lost positions. The same thing would've happened to Hamilton. If he had stayed out he would've wound up where he finished anyway or his tires could've delaminated and DNFed.
If Hamilton had simply followed the team's first request to pit he would've been battling Perez at the end for third place. No matter how do you slice it the team made the right call to bring Hamilton in and he ignored it.
The track wasn't drying. If you go back and watch it there were spots of rain hitting at certain corners throughout the entire race. Please tell me when Lewis made the right call? In Russia two weeks ago the team made the right call in the rain and got him the win. Lewis' primary gripe about the new inters was graining. Had he come in with 16 to go as asked he would have been done graining with 9 or 10 to go and been fast again. He didn't consider that, THAT is why the team knows better, they can map out all the contingencies. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Oct 12, 2021 5:39:21 GMT -8
Here is Ocon's tires at the end of the race. And the tires taken off Lewis' car with 10 laps to go. The canvas is already showing. The team made the right call. It doesn't matter what Lewis knew or didn't know. The team knew the right thing to do and Lewis after all these years of winning with them should've had faith in them to comply with their request.  |
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Post by pushtopass on Oct 12, 2021 5:48:37 GMT -8
Here is Ocon's tires at the end of the race. And the tires taken off Lewis' car with 10 laps to go. The canvas is already showing. The team made the right call. It doesn't matter what Lewis knew or didn't know. The team knew the right thing to do and Lewis after all these years of winning with them should've had faith in them to comply with their request. A simple "your pace is dramatically decreasing compared to those with new tires" or "these will not make it to the end" would have been useful. Again, why not say that? It's not like there was no time. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Oct 12, 2021 6:35:39 GMT -8
Here is Ocon's tires at the end of the race. And the tires taken off Lewis' car with 10 laps to go. The canvas is already showing. The team made the right call. It doesn't matter what Lewis knew or didn't know. The team knew the right thing to do and Lewis after all these years of winning with them should've had faith in them to comply with their request. A simple "your pace is dramatically decreasing compared to those with new tires" or "these will not make it to the end" would have been useful. Again, why not say that? It's not like there was no time. None of that matters, Lewis doesn’t need to know the thinking behind every freaking decision. Should the team consult Lewis on every decision? engineering? catering? The team knows what they’re doing. They proved that in Russia and got him the win. Just pit when the team tells you to pit. |
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jmjgt
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Posts: 3,311
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Post by jmjgt on Oct 12, 2021 7:27:17 GMT -8
^^ Merc tried to explain why they wanted him to pit but Lulu vetoed the decision, by the time it got to the point where he was losing time it was already too late so telling him then was futile. The team knew what Bottas had experienced after stopping and had been plotting what some of the first stoppers (like Ricci) were going though and knew there would be a graining period, so (as Wilmy posted) that's why they initially call him in when they did.
Wet or dry Lulu was screwed, Perez was past his graining period and had taken 2 seconds off in a lap and a half. If it had stayed dry his tires would have blistered (more) and if it rained he had no tread left to siphon water off, that lack if rubber would have also meant his tires would lose temperature on a wet track.
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Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA