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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 19, 2019 19:04:28 GMT -8
Except that they let him run a Honda less than a year ago in the Andretti test at Barber, long after the McLaren - Honda split. It's McLaren and Brown that they want nothing to do with, and they have no problem with Fernando, according to Michael Andretti just recently. His team basically being the face of Honda in IndyCar and in American racing, I doubt he'd say that against their wishes or if it weren't true. Andretti loves Alonso, wants to work with him again, and seems to think he'll be able to. In fact, I think it's fairly likely that the next time we see Alonso in an IndyCar, it'll be in an Andretti Honda, after his McLaren obligations have been fulfilled... which also might be why he doesn't want to race a full IndyCar season in 2020. Alonso ran the car at Barber with all the Honda logos removed to make it appear he wasn't driving a Honda, even though he was. 🤣 www.racefans.net/2018/09/05/pictures-alonso-tests-indycar-barber/Now, part of the reason may have been because he was under contract to Toyota at the time. We will see about the future with Andretti but I have never been under the impression things were all that warm and fuzzy between the two (Alonso and Honda), not just McLaren. Yeah, it was unmarked, and we never see that in testing. Oh wait, yeah we do. And Honda released a statement welcoming him to test with their engine at Barber. They also said as much about powering him in IndyCar again. ETA: And obtw he's still a Toyota driver at least until January... doing the 2020 Dakar. |
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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 19, 2019 19:12:47 GMT -8
I dunno. It depends on what might be happening at Ferrari imho. And taking that seat mid-season on that team has little upside. The more I think about it, the thing that makes the most sense in terms of FA coming back to F1 is if he does it in 2021 with the rules change, unless he really gets what he wants for 2020 and can carry it over to 2021. All do really know is that RedBull, Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault all had available seats at the end of last season and none of them made an offer to Alonso, even after FOM asked them all to reconsider. I think FOM even approached Haas. I don't think you know that none of them offered him a seat any more than anyone on any F1 board 'knows' they did offer one, just like we have no idea whether the Red Bull offer(s) have happened ... not that it would matter either way. All this "we know this because this" bullshit is just that, esp in F1. F1 teams, drivers, etc rarely reveal the hand they're really playing, and more often than not, whatever they say in the press is purposefully-stated misdirection, posturing, or legalese. I'm not saying Alonso is coming back to F1. What's interesting is the over the top reaction consisting of only absolutes whenever anyone mentions the mere possibility of it happening. |
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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 19, 2019 19:15:15 GMT -8
The Arrow McLaren thing frees up a Honda franchise... Good point. |
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Post by montybriscoe on Aug 19, 2019 19:17:47 GMT -8
Alonso ran the car at Barber with all the Honda logos removed to make it appear he wasn't driving a Honda, even though he was. 🤣 www.racefans.net/2018/09/05/pictures-alonso-tests-indycar-barber/Now, part of the reason may have been because he was under contract to Toyota at the time. We will see about the future with Andretti but I have never been under the impression things were all that warm and fuzzy between the two (Alonso and Honda), not just McLaren. Yeah, it was unmarked, and we never see that in testing. Oh wait, yeah we do. And Honda released a statement welcoming him to test with their engine at Barber. They also said as much about powering him in IndyCar again. I believe that was HPD out of California, not the mothership in Tokyo. |
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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 19, 2019 19:30:40 GMT -8
Yeah, it was unmarked, and we never see that in testing. Oh wait, yeah we do. And Honda released a statement welcoming him to test with their engine at Barber. They also said as much about powering him in IndyCar again. I believe that was HPD out of California, not the mothership in Tokyo. Yes, it was. Doubtful they'd go too hard against the wishes of the mother ship, either. And if they did, they'd get smacked down and there would likely be some kind of public correction. Much is made of the GP2 thing, but the Honda guys were very understanding of Alonso's reaction in the heat of the moment (and Vandoorne's, and Button's ... funny how everyone gives them a pass on their comments, and Gasly & Hartley last year, etc). Literally everyone knew that PU was a massive POS, most of all the Honda guys. From everything I've read & heard, it was the behind the scenes maneuvering of Brown & McLaren that really upset Honda brass, which completely jibes with Andretti's & Miller's comments that Honda is fine with Alonso but refuse to work with McLaren or Brown. There are also Japanese posters on other boards who are well-known Honda fans, apologists even, who say the same thing - that Honda's big problem is with McLaren and Brown, and that the Japanese 'face-saving' angle in all this is being vastly overblown in regard to Alonso. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Aug 20, 2019 4:54:27 GMT -8
All do really know is that RedBull, Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault all had available seats at the end of last season and none of them made an offer to Alonso, even after FOM asked them all to reconsider. I think FOM even approached Haas. I don't think you know that none of them offered him a seat any more than anyone on any F1 board 'knows' they did offer one, just like we have no idea whether the Red Bull offer(s) have happened ... not that it would matter either way. All this "we know this because this" bullshit is just that, esp in F1. F1 teams, drivers, etc rarely reveal the hand they're really playing, and more often than not, whatever they say in the press is purposefully-stated misdirection, posturing, or legalese. I'm not saying Alonso is coming back to F1. What's interesting is the over the top reaction consisting of only absolutes whenever anyone mentions the mere possibility of it happening. We know RedBull, Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault all had available seats at the end of last season and Alonso isn't in any of them. That says it all. |
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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 20, 2019 5:18:09 GMT -8
I don't think you know that none of them offered him a seat any more than anyone on any F1 board 'knows' they did offer one, just like we have no idea whether the Red Bull offer(s) have happened ... not that it would matter either way. All this "we know this because this" bullshit is just that, esp in F1. F1 teams, drivers, etc rarely reveal the hand they're really playing, and more often than not, whatever they say in the press is purposefully-stated misdirection, posturing, or legalese. I'm not saying Alonso is coming back to F1. What's interesting is the over the top reaction consisting of only absolutes whenever anyone mentions the mere possibility of it happening. We know RedBull, Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault all had available seats at the end of last season and Alonso isn't in any of them. That says it all. It really doesn't say much at all, unless you take a very simplistic or narrow view. Merc isn't interested in signing any driver that's going to unsettle Lewis in any way imho. We all saw what happened just with Nico battling him. They aren't gonna sign Alonso or any other elite driver opposite Lewis imho. Same with the others. IF Red Bull made an offer to Alonso, it was probably only made because they thought they were in danger of losing Max, imho. Ferrari had Vettel on board when they brought Charles up. Charles might be a future elite, but he's not one yet. None of these teams want to upset their #1s. That doesn't mean they don't rate Alonso or any other top driver that they don't offer a seat. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Aug 20, 2019 6:08:55 GMT -8
We know RedBull, Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault all had available seats at the end of last season and Alonso isn't in any of them. That says it all. It really doesn't say much at all, unless you take a very simplistic or narrow view. Merc isn't interested in signing any driver that's going to unsettle Lewis in any way imho. We all saw what happened just with Nico battling him. They aren't gonna sign Alonso or any other elite driver opposite Lewis imho. Same with the others. IF Red Bull made an offer to Alonso, it was probably only made because they thought they were in danger of losing Max, imho. Ferrari had Vettel on board when they brought Charles up. Charles might be a future elite, but he's not one yet. None of these teams want to upset their #1s. That doesn't mean they don't rate Alonso or any other top driver that they don't offer a seat. It means they had open seats and didn't hire Alonso. That is the scoreboard. |
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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 20, 2019 6:13:19 GMT -8
It really doesn't say much at all, unless you take a very simplistic or narrow view. Merc isn't interested in signing any driver that's going to unsettle Lewis in any way imho. We all saw what happened just with Nico battling him. They aren't gonna sign Alonso or any other elite driver opposite Lewis imho. Same with the others. IF Red Bull made an offer to Alonso, it was probably only made because they thought they were in danger of losing Max, imho. Ferrari had Vettel on board when they brought Charles up. Charles might be a future elite, but he's not one yet. None of these teams want to upset their #1s. That doesn't mean they don't rate Alonso or any other top driver that they don't offer a seat. It means they had open seats and didn't hire Alonso. That is the scoreboard. Yeah, sure. Keep oversimplifying it. They weren't interested in a top driver for those seats. If they had been - even if they didn't want Alonso - one of them would have snapped up Ricciardo while he was ripe for the picking. Surely you don't believe they think more highly of Bottas, Leclerc, and Gasly than they do of Ricciardo... |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Aug 20, 2019 6:14:11 GMT -8
^Your forgot Renault's reasoning for passing on Alonso, to put it plainly he only has so many good years left in him and they were looking farther down the road than he would've taken them.
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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 20, 2019 6:38:53 GMT -8
^Your forgot Renault's reasoning for passing on Alonso, to put it plainly he only has so many good years left in him and they were looking farther down the road than he would've taken them. That could very well be, but I kinda doubt Alonso would go to Renault if they offered. If he'd do that, then why not just stay at McLaren like he could have? He knew last year that this year's McLaren was gonna be good & probably had good intel on the Renault program as well, given his contacts there. Had he taken a Renault seat, he'd be 2 spots behind McLaren & everyone would be ripping him for it... |
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Post by montybriscoe on Aug 20, 2019 6:39:22 GMT -8
I always thought Alonso's "team building skills" turned some people off. When you hire Alonso, it no longer is "Team <insert team name>" but it becomes "Team Alonso Sponsored by Kimoa."
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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 20, 2019 6:50:35 GMT -8
I always thought Alonso's "team building skills" turned some people off. When you hire Alonso, it no longer is "Team <insert team name>" but it becomes "Team Alonso Sponsored by Kimoa." LOL ... so now if the company Alonso is involved in sponsors the team (which was in need of sponsors), that's somehow hurting the team? This reminds me of the BS in the Netflix series with Buxton trying to paint Alonso as trying to run the team, getting rid of people he didn't like in favor of people he knew and approved of ... like Seidl, who has a great track record. Buxton acted like he was gonna wreck McLaren, but what has the team's trajectory been since Seidl and others arrived? Not that I'm crediting Alonso for that. I'm not. I don't think he was responsible for those moves. So if it was really "Team Alonso" like you and Will the shill suggest, then why did Alonso leave after getting 'his people' in place to right the ship? The answer? He was already leaving. The "Team Alonso" thing is just more bullshit for the 'Bad Guy Alonso' narrative that drives ratings and clicks. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Aug 20, 2019 7:18:40 GMT -8
It means they had open seats and didn't hire Alonso. That is the scoreboard. Yeah, sure. Keep oversimplifying it. They weren't interested in a top driver for those seats. If they had been - even if they didn't want Alonso - one of them would have snapped up Ricciardo while he was ripe for the picking. Surely you don't believe they think more highly of Bottas, Leclerc, and Gasly than they do of Ricciardo... I'm not oversimplifying it. I'm stating the facts as they are. There's nothing more to it |
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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 20, 2019 7:23:06 GMT -8
Yeah, sure. Keep oversimplifying it. They weren't interested in a top driver for those seats. If they had been - even if they didn't want Alonso - one of them would have snapped up Ricciardo while he was ripe for the picking. Surely you don't believe they think more highly of Bottas, Leclerc, and Gasly than they do of Ricciardo... I'm not oversimplifying it. I'm stating the facts as they are. There's nothing more to it Right up to the "that says it all" bit. That's not fact. That's the oversimplification. "Pissed off Honda, so it's impossible to work for them (nevermind that Alonso still works for Toyota at least through January)." That's not fact & is also an oversimplification. But hey, carry on. So like I said, surely you don't believe they think more highly of Bottas, Leclerc, and Gasly than they do of Ricciardo right? Because if it's as simple as you're making it out to be, Ricciardo would be in one of those seats. |
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Post by racerman967 on Aug 20, 2019 7:49:27 GMT -8
Ricciardo mad a bad decision, but got paid well to do it. He is sitting 11th in the drivers standings. Maybe some teams realized it was the car and not the driver? Mclaren and there design team ruined the relationship with Honda. Alonso simply burned that bridge by saying it was all Honda's fault. Alonso would want ot go to a team where he is a clear number one, IMO, and Ferrari, Merc and Red Bull don't offer that. McLaren and Toro Rosso are not options so that leaves Renault, HAAS, Alfa and Williams.
I could actually see him at Alfa for a season or two until Mick is ready, but as far as winning cars, I can't see any of those seats being available to him.
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Post by montybriscoe on Aug 20, 2019 7:54:30 GMT -8
I always thought Alonso's "team building skills" turned some people off. When you hire Alonso, it no longer is "Team <insert team name>" but it becomes "Team Alonso Sponsored by Kimoa." LOL ... so now if the company Alonso is involved in sponsors the team (which was in need of sponsors), that's somehow hurting the team? This reminds me of the BS in the Netflix series with Buxton trying to paint Alonso as trying to run the team, getting rid of people he didn't like in favor of people he knew and approved of ... like Seidl, who has a great track record. Buxton acted like he was gonna wreck McLaren, but what has the team's trajectory been since Seidl and others arrived? Not that I'm crediting Alonso for that. I'm not. I don't think he was responsible for those moves. So if it was really "Team Alonso" like you and Will the shill suggest, then why did Alonso leave after getting 'his people' in place to right the ship? The answer? He was already leaving. The "Team Alonso" thing is just more bullshit for the 'Bad Guy Alonso' narrative that drives ratings and clicks. I put Kimoa in for giggles. |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Aug 20, 2019 8:23:11 GMT -8
^Your forgot Renault's reasoning for passing on Alonso, to put it plainly he only has so many good years left in him and they were looking farther down the road than he would've taken them. That could very well be, but I kinda doubt Alonso would go to Renault if they offered. If he'd do that, then why not just stay at McLaren like he could have? He knew last year that this year's McLaren was gonna be good & probably had good intel on the Renault program as well, given his contacts there. Had he taken a Renault seat, he'd be 2 spots behind McLaren & everyone would be ripping him for it... My point was that Fred's sell by date was probably also a factor in the other teams not employing him as well. Only Red Bull needs the immediate effect hiring him would have right now but they didn't see this situation when he was on the market, the options they have now need more track time than they'd be getting if Alonso was in place, he just doesn't fit into most of the grids plans. I don't think we'll be seeing much coming and going in and out of F1 for the next couple of years, Kubica will probably be out, Ocon in, most others will shuffled around. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 8:23:57 GMT -8
Oh, Good Grief!  |
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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 20, 2019 8:29:31 GMT -8
That could very well be, but I kinda doubt Alonso would go to Renault if they offered. If he'd do that, then why not just stay at McLaren like he could have? He knew last year that this year's McLaren was gonna be good & probably had good intel on the Renault program as well, given his contacts there. Had he taken a Renault seat, he'd be 2 spots behind McLaren & everyone would be ripping him for it... My point was that Fred's sell by date was probably also a factor in the other teams not employing him as well. Only Red Bull needs the immediate effect hiring him would have right now but they didn't see this situation when he was on the market, the options they have now need more track time than they'd be getting if Alonso was in place, he just doesn't fit into most of the grids plans. I don't think we'll be seeing much coming and going in and out of F1 for the next couple of years, Kubica will probably be out, Ocon in, most others will shuffled around. Yeah I don't think we'll see Alonso anywhere while they still have a Lewis or a Vettel or Max. If one of those guys were to move though, I think it could happen. A couple of years is a long time in F1, and I'm sure Alonso can still give a couple of good years at least. I could also even see him returning to McLaren. But even if he doesn't, watching him try other things like the Dakar, Indy, etc, will be fun. |
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Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA