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Post by hairyscotsman on May 12, 2022 9:19:03 GMT -8
I haven't watched nascar since they started the chase thing however many years ago. Just another gimmick. And I stopped years ago too because of the "start and park" BS policy!! I don't care if it's still there or gone today I don't miss Nascar. And don't get me started on the idiotic stage racing...
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Post by mmi16 on May 12, 2022 9:51:57 GMT -8
And I stopped years ago too because of the "start and park" BS policy!! I don't care if it's still there or gone today I don't miss Nascar. And don't get me started on the idiotic stage racing... I agree NASCAR isn't much - but it generally beats watching grass grow (with which it competes).
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Post by olderguysrule on May 12, 2022 12:23:31 GMT -8
^^ for decades I watched nascar most every weekend. I never cared for their over use of yellow flags. someone would touch the wall and they'd yellow flag the race to bunch everyone back up. But after the middle of the 2k's it seems like it all went south.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2022 12:53:21 GMT -8
^^ for decades I watched nascar most every weekend. I never cared for their over use of yellow flags. someone would touch the wall and they'd yellow flag the race to bunch everyone back up. But after the middle of the 2k's it seems like it all went south. It started going to hell when Earnhardt died.
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Post by mikey on May 12, 2022 13:56:57 GMT -8
^^ for decades I watched nascar most every weekend. I never cared for their over use of yellow flags. someone would touch the wall and they'd yellow flag the race to bunch everyone back up. But after the middle of the 2k's it seems like it all went south. I also hated when they refused to penalize someone for intentionally throwing something out of the car to cause one too!! They would show the guy doing it on tv and still Nascar did nothing even after the race.
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r60man
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Post by r60man on May 13, 2022 6:11:29 GMT -8
^^ for decades I watched nascar most every weekend. I never cared for their over use of yellow flags. someone would touch the wall and they'd yellow flag the race to bunch everyone back up. But after the middle of the 2k's it seems like it all went south. It started going to hell when Earnhardt died. Nope, it started well before then. Earnhardt was the main reason it hadn't gone to hell in a hand basket. NASCAR used his death to ramrod the "common template" car something that Dale Sr. was 100% against in the name of "safety". They became much more about the "show" and less about the racing. Then they add stages to get at least two built in cautions. Now the new car is naturally causing more cautions and drivers are asking to not throw the caution at the end of the stage. NASCAR is refusing so far.
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Post by hairyscotsman on May 13, 2022 14:13:05 GMT -8
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Post by mmi16 on May 13, 2022 14:41:02 GMT -8
I have to agree with Otmar. How much is enough?
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on May 13, 2022 15:48:44 GMT -8
The FIA and stewards will argue fred was able to be more than a sec ahead going into the DRS detection zone by going off, so even if he gave the time back afterwards he still kept himself safe where it counted.
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Post by mmi16 on May 13, 2022 18:47:17 GMT -8
The FIA and stewards will argue fred was able to be more than a sec ahead going into the DRS detection zone by going off, so even if he gave the time back afterwards he still kept himself safe where it counted. What standard is being applied for FA to KNOW how much time to 'give back' while he is in the process of driving the car. Does the FIA want him to give up a position to someone 3 seconds behind - who didn't earn the position on track and in fact never got close enough to challenge heads up for the position.
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Post by Pistola on May 13, 2022 19:34:19 GMT -8
I think you have to look at it like this. There's a new Sherriff in town and he's setting the table as far as the rules are applied. If you think there's any comparison to what went on under Whiting and Masi think again.
The new Sherriff seems to think the rule book exists in black and white for a reason.
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on May 13, 2022 20:25:21 GMT -8
After the whine-fest that went on after Masi called an (legal) audible that may be the way to go.
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Post by mmi16 on May 13, 2022 20:41:13 GMT -8
I think you have to look at it like this. There's a new Sherriff in town and he's setting the table as far as the rules are applied. If you think there's any comparison to what went on under Whiting and Masi think again. The new Sherriff seems to think the rule book exists in black and white for a reason. Except the new Sherriff has written much of his rule book in NASCAR disappearing ink.
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Post by mikey on May 14, 2022 3:35:26 GMT -8
I think you have to look at it like this. There's a new Sherriff in town and he's setting the table as far as the rules are applied. If you think there's any comparison to what went on under Whiting and Masi think again. The new Sherriff seems to think the rule book exists in black and white for a reason. And I'm not sure anyone would argue with that but what the situation with Alonso 'how much do you give back to someone who's already behind you?', I wouldn't think that's written in the rules book so someone came up with something that then ended up with Alonso getting a 5 sec time penalty. I think the Teams and Drivers deserve to know the metric that was used to determine that especially if that's the 'rule' that's going to be followed going forward.
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Post by hairyscotsman on May 14, 2022 8:19:38 GMT -8
I think you have to look at it like this. There's a new Sherriff in town and he's setting the table as far as the rules are applied. If you think there's any comparison to what went on under Whiting and Masi think again. The new Sherriff seems to think the rule book exists in black and white for a reason. I have no problem at all with some newfound consistency in the application of the rules. In fact, I applaud it. Let's see if that happens going forward in similar instances, which will no doubt occur. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but I think it's already happened this year with no penalty. Mistakes will be made and chicanes will be cut because of it, but the new consistency still doesn't address how the drivers are supposed to know when they've given sufficient time back after a mistake. That's the real problem there imho. Perhaps every chicane runoff needs a bollard to go around or some barriers a la Monza. IIRC Miami had nothing there.
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Post by Pistola on May 14, 2022 9:11:17 GMT -8
I think you have to look at it like this. There's a new Sherriff in town and he's setting the table as far as the rules are applied. If you think there's any comparison to what went on under Whiting and Masi think again. The new Sherriff seems to think the rule book exists in black and white for a reason. I have no problem at all with some newfound consistency in the application of the rules. In fact, I applaud it. Let's see if that happens going forward in similar instances, which will no doubt occur. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but I think it's already happened this year with no penalty. Mistakes will be made and chicanes will be cut because of it, but the new consistency still doesn't address how the drivers are supposed to know when they've given sufficient time back after a mistake. That's the real problem there imho. Perhaps every chicane runoff needs a bollard to go around or some barriers a la Monza. IIRC Miami had nothing there. Drivers can be counted on to give back only what they think is enough which usually will not be enough to put them back into any real jeopardy. It's still a puzzle with only 5 races into the policy shift.
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Post by mikey on May 14, 2022 13:52:57 GMT -8
I think you have to look at it like this. There's a new Sherriff in town and he's setting the table as far as the rules are applied. If you think there's any comparison to what went on under Whiting and Masi think again. The new Sherriff seems to think the rule book exists in black and white for a reason. I have no problem at all with some newfound consistency in the application of the rules. In fact, I applaud it. Let's see if that happens going forward in similar instances, which will no doubt occur. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but I think it's already happened this year with no penalty. Mistakes will be made and chicanes will be cut because of it, but the new consistency still doesn't address how the drivers are supposed to know when they've given sufficient time back after a mistake. That's the real problem there imho. Perhaps every chicane runoff needs a bollard to go around or some barriers a la Monza. IIRC Miami had nothing there. A bunch of them had walls very close though so bollards could make it impossible to go thru them at speed if it truly is a mistake or accident avoidance.
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Post by mmi16 on May 14, 2022 14:00:10 GMT -8
I have no problem at all with some newfound consistency in the application of the rules. In fact, I applaud it. Let's see if that happens going forward in similar instances, which will no doubt occur. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but I think it's already happened this year with no penalty. Mistakes will be made and chicanes will be cut because of it, but the new consistency still doesn't address how the drivers are supposed to know when they've given sufficient time back after a mistake. That's the real problem there imho. Perhaps every chicane runoff needs a bollard to go around or some barriers a la Monza. IIRC Miami had nothing there. A bunch of them had walls very close though so bollards could make it impossible to go thru them at speed if it truly is a mistake or accident avoidance. Bollards are just something else to damage the cars
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Post by Pistola on May 15, 2022 16:47:29 GMT -8
I think you have to look at it like this. There's a new Sherriff in town and he's setting the table as far as the rules are applied. If you think there's any comparison to what went on under Whiting and Masi think again. The new Sherriff seems to think the rule book exists in black and white for a reason. And I'm not sure anyone would argue with that but what the situation with Alonso 'how much do you give back to someone who's already behind you?', I wouldn't think that's written in the rules book so someone came up with something that then ended up with Alonso getting a 5 sec time penalty. I think the Teams and Drivers deserve to know the metric that was used to determine that especially if that's the 'rule' that's going to be followed going forward. www.racefans.net/2022/05/15/did-the-stewards-handle-alonsos-chicane-cutting-incidents-in-miami-correctly/He appears to have consciously kept his advantage from the chicane. With all his experience its hard not to picture his actions otherwise. Waiting to lift until Schumacher wouldn't have DRS is incriminating.
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on May 15, 2022 16:58:01 GMT -8
^ As i said in post #220, the FIA will say it way a strategic faux pas.
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