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Post by mmi16 on Jun 15, 2021 13:36:39 GMT -8
Shame on RB and Aston Martin for racing with the tires.... Believe Pirelli's crap and I've got a swamp to sell you in Antarctica.
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Post by mikey on Jun 15, 2021 13:39:53 GMT -8
I hope Pirelli hires enough people with testers to check every car post race at say 2 laps post race, or whatever number, so every tire is checked within a couple of minutes total time, that way the Teams can't complain and say 'mine cooled off and are now below pressure'.
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Jun 15, 2021 14:35:27 GMT -8
Kinda funny that neither RB OR Forced Nepotism came out with a hair on fire response the the failures. We all know how bitchy Horner can be over the slightest thing. Just saying.
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Jun 15, 2021 15:18:01 GMT -8
Pirelli report is in. Inner sidewall failure caused by running conditions and not related to any manufacturing defect. Of course, did we expect anything different?
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Post by snuffmoviestar on Jun 15, 2021 15:23:12 GMT -8
I believe Pirelli. The teams fuck with the tyres any way they can get away with. Remember when teams were caught putting rights on left and vise versa? They under inflate the tyres then cook them to death to bring the pressure up to the minimum. Next year all new sensors will be mandated and this will finally go away.
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 15, 2021 15:31:02 GMT -8
I believe Pirelli. The teams fuck with the tyres any way they can get away with. Remember when teams were caught putting rights on left and vise versa? They under inflate the tyres then cook them to death to bring the pressure up to the minimum. Next year all new sensors will be mandated and this will finally go away. It is the job of the manufacturer to out think the teams in ways the tires can be abused and devise self defense measures to guarantee the tires will survive any form of torture that the teams apply.
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Post by snuffmoviestar on Jun 15, 2021 15:32:41 GMT -8
I believe Pirelli. The teams fuck with the tyres any way they can get away with. Remember when teams were caught putting rights on left and vise versa? They under inflate the tyres then cook them to death to bring the pressure up to the minimum. Next year all new sensors will be mandated and this will finally go away. It is the job of the manufacturer to out think the teams in ways the tires can be abused and devise self defense measures to guarantee the tires will survive any form of torture that the teams apply. Carlo disagrees. So do I so he's right.
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 15, 2021 16:42:06 GMT -8
It is the job of the manufacturer to out think the teams in ways the tires can be abused and devise self defense measures to guarantee the tires will survive any form of torture that the teams apply. Carlo disagrees. So do I so he's right. It is Pirellli's reputation that is on the line as a tire manufacturer - not the teams. If Pirelli wants the reputation that their product goes BOOM running down a straight approaching 200 MPH that is their prerogative. As a aside - I bought a set of Pirelli's for a car, once upon a time - didn't think much of them. Never again!
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Post by Pistola on Jun 15, 2021 17:14:15 GMT -8
I believe Pirelli. The teams fuck with the tyres any way they can get away with. Remember when teams were caught putting rights on left and vise versa? They under inflate the tyres then cook them to death to bring the pressure up to the minimum. Next year all new sensors will be mandated and this will finally go away. It is the job of the manufacturer to out think the teams in ways the tires can be abused and devise self defense measures to guarantee the tires will survive any form of torture that the teams apply. Pirelli has raised the minimum tire pressures and the teams complained, they make a very hard tire which wasn't the hard used in Baku, the teams complain when it's used. I have no doubt that Pirelli or any manufacturer could make a fool proof tire but the teams wouldn't like it. Pirelli made a very political statement on the cause of the failure by outwardly blaming no one thing in manufacture or with the two teams who had failures while at the same time working with the FIA on a TD. I'd say there will be more TD's to come. If anybody thinks the tires aren't bench tested to failure in the factory at standards beyond what they think will be seen on the track you're probably mistaken.
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Jun 15, 2021 17:19:09 GMT -8
Carlo disagrees. So do I so he's right. It is Pirellli's reputation that is on the line as a tire manufacturer - not the teams. If Pirelli wants the reputation that their product goes BOOM running down a straight approaching 200 MPH that is their prerogative. As a aside - I bought a set of Pirelli's for a car, once upon a time - didn't think much of them. Never again! Most people don't sweat the small stuff, if they actually do see a certain product on a racecar that's more than enough to start the leap of faith in the purchasing process, THAT'S all that matters to Pirelli and every other company. Trying to convince them a tire company sucks because of 200 mph blowouts has the same effect as telling them their feet will get burned if they walk on the sun. Pirelli's problems exist in a very small universe.
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 15, 2021 18:57:43 GMT -8
It is the job of the manufacturer to out think the teams in ways the tires can be abused and devise self defense measures to guarantee the tires will survive any form of torture that the teams apply. Pirelli has raised the minimum tire pressures and the teams complained, they make a very hard tire which wasn't the hard used in Baku, the teams complain when it's used. I have no doubt that Pirelli or any manufacturer could make a fool proof tire but the teams wouldn't like it. Pirelli made a very political statement on the cause of the failure by outwardly blaming no one thing in manufacture or with the two teams who had failures while at the same time working with the FIA on a TD. I'd say there will be more TD's to come. If anybody thinks the tires aren't bench tested to failure in the factory at standards beyond what they think will be seen on the track you're probably mistaken. Bench testing and track testing are two vastly different things. Let's face it - Tire manufacturers in racing possess the demonstrated ability to build tires that work and last. Tires in the various sports car series are double and triple stinted with heavier cars that operate at higher than F1 speeds. The problem is the FIA and their edicts of building shit for tires. I don't know what Bridgestone/Firestone are doing for IndyCar - their tires seem to physically last - their grip may have gone but the carcass lasts. The carcass of a tire should be able withstand any indignity besides actual debris cutting or punctures that the drivers can throw at it - the grip in the tire can be long gone, but the tire as a 'structural' element of the car is still safe to 'flog'.
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Post by Pistola on Jun 15, 2021 19:35:30 GMT -8
Pirelli has raised the minimum tire pressures and the teams complained, they make a very hard tire which wasn't the hard used in Baku, the teams complain when it's used. I have no doubt that Pirelli or any manufacturer could make a fool proof tire but the teams wouldn't like it. Pirelli made a very political statement on the cause of the failure by outwardly blaming no one thing in manufacture or with the two teams who had failures while at the same time working with the FIA on a TD. I'd say there will be more TD's to come. If anybody thinks the tires aren't bench tested to failure in the factory at standards beyond what they think will be seen on the track you're probably mistaken. Bench testing and track testing are two vastly different things. Let's face it - Tire manufacturers in racing possess the demonstrated ability to build tires that work and last. Tires in the various sports car series are double and triple stinted with heavier cars that operate at higher than F1 speeds. The problem is the FIA and their edicts of building shit for tires. I don't know what Bridgestone/Firestone are doing for IndyCar - their tires seem to physically last - their grip may have gone but the carcass lasts. The carcass of a tire should be able withstand any indignity besides actual debris cutting or punctures that the drivers can throw at it - the grip in the tire can be long gone, but the tire as a 'structural' element of the car is still safe to 'flog'. The cars of the Indy series don't put anywhere near the loads on tires seen in F1, not even close. They're like passenger cars compared to F1. The downforce and hp inputs are just in a different ballpark. Another problem for F1 is the teams themselves who last season as a group decided they didn't want the tires Pirelli was proposing to use and we saw how well that worked at Silverstone. In that sense the teams have had too much of an input into the design of the tires. Pirelli is caught on the fence of making both the teams and the FIA mandates work. You really can't compare F1 to the sports car series because in sports car there is the strategy of longer stints in the longer 12 and 24 hr races. In the shorter events that strategy isn't always used. F1 at present demands short stints to make for a spectacle and not a procession. F1 tried a tire that lasted a full race for a year and ran away from it to make the teams happy.
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 15, 2021 19:51:38 GMT -8
Bench testing and track testing are two vastly different things. Let's face it - Tire manufacturers in racing possess the demonstrated ability to build tires that work and last. Tires in the various sports car series are double and triple stinted with heavier cars that operate at higher than F1 speeds. The problem is the FIA and their edicts of building shit for tires. I don't know what Bridgestone/Firestone are doing for IndyCar - their tires seem to physically last - their grip may have gone but the carcass lasts. The carcass of a tire should be able withstand any indignity besides actual debris cutting or punctures that the drivers can throw at it - the grip in the tire can be long gone, but the tire as a 'structural' element of the car is still safe to 'flog'. The cars of the Indy series don't put anywhere near the loads on tires seen in F1, not even close. They're like passenger cars compared to F1. The downforce and hp inputs are just in a different ballpark. Another problem for F1 is the teams themselves who last season as a group decided they didn't want the tires Pirelli was proposing to use and we saw how well that worked at Silverstone. In that sense the teams have had too much of an input into the design of the tires. Pirelli is caught on the fence of making both the teams and the FIA mandates work. You really can't compare F1 to the sports car series because in sports car there is the strategy of longer stints in the longer 12 and 24 hr races. In the shorter events that strategy isn't always used. F1 at present demands short stints to make for a spectacle and not a procession. F1 tried a tire that lasted a full race for a year and ran away from it to make the teams happy. Pirelli has to grow two pair!
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Post by mikey on Jun 16, 2021 2:08:36 GMT -8
Bench testing and track testing are two vastly different things. Let's face it - Tire manufacturers in racing possess the demonstrated ability to build tires that work and last. Tires in the various sports car series are double and triple stinted with heavier cars that operate at higher than F1 speeds. The problem is the FIA and their edicts of building shit for tires. I don't know what Bridgestone/Firestone are doing for IndyCar - their tires seem to physically last - their grip may have gone but the carcass lasts. The carcass of a tire should be able withstand any indignity besides actual debris cutting or punctures that the drivers can throw at it - the grip in the tire can be long gone, but the tire as a 'structural' element of the car is still safe to 'flog'. The cars of the Indy series don't put anywhere near the loads on tires seen in F1, not even close. They're like passenger cars compared to F1. The downforce and hp inputs are just in a different ballpark. Another problem for F1 is the teams themselves who last season as a group decided they didn't want the tires Pirelli was proposing to use and we saw how well that worked at Silverstone. In that sense the teams have had too much of an input into the design of the tires. Pirelli is caught on the fence of making both the teams and the FIA mandates work. You really can't compare F1 to the sports car series because in sports car there is the strategy of longer stints in the longer 12 and 24 hr races. In the shorter events that strategy isn't always used. F1 at present demands short stints to make for a spectacle and not a procession. F1 tried a tire that lasted a full race for a year and ran away from it to make the teams happy. Without pits stops at some races there would be zero passing and no fans watching on tv
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Post by overboost on Jun 16, 2021 3:26:46 GMT -8
Mandate at least 2 pit stops for every race.
No tire explosions and Pirelli gets to sell more rubber.
Win win.
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 16, 2021 4:39:47 GMT -8
Mandate at least 2 pit stops for every race. No tire explosions and Pirelli gets to sell more rubber. Win win. Eliminate tire warmers! Drivers relearn how to handle minimal grip until they can work the tires up to operating temperature.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 4:59:05 GMT -8
Mandate at least 2 pit stops for every race. No tire explosions and Pirelli gets to sell more rubber. Win win. Eliminate tire warmers! Drivers relearn how to handle minimal grip until they can work the tires up to operating temperature. After all, they are the Greatest Drivers In The World.
They should be the definition of car control under all conditions. All other lower lifeforms should be able to learn from these exalted creatures.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Jun 16, 2021 4:59:48 GMT -8
Mandate at least 2 pit stops for every race. No tire explosions and Pirelli gets to sell more rubber. Win win. Eliminate tire warmers! Drivers relearn how to handle minimal grip until they can work the tires up to operating temperature. I agree. Sounds like they are trying to fool the pressure sensors with excessive heat in the tires to keep the pressures up.
Mandate minimum COLD pressures AND generic tamper-proof pressure sensors and police them on the grid and before pitstops, by electronic means if need be.
If necessary, allow pressure bleeders on the wheels. IMO, the damage to these tires is being done early in their stints while the pressures are too low allowing excessive deformation of the carcasses.
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Post by Pistola on Jun 16, 2021 7:33:56 GMT -8
For the most part other forms of racing like the WEC are running low profile tires and wheels (18") and have done so for many years. Even the Indycar size is a couple inches bigger around than the hoops used in F1. The teams by postponing the 18" change may have contributed to the problem.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Jun 16, 2021 8:16:54 GMT -8
For the most part other forms of racing like the WEC are running low profile tires and wheels (18") and have done so for many years. Even the Indycar size is a couple inches bigger around than the hoops used in F1. The teams by postponing the 18" change may have contributed to the problem. I agree, they have WAY too much sidewall which no doubt exacerbates low pressure issues.
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