jmjgt
Member
Posts: 3,311
|
Post by jmjgt on May 25, 2021 9:25:21 GMT -8
I'm still finding it hard to believe the excessive gun speed theory in light of how many wheel changes we've seen without it happening before. Stranger things have happened though. According to Allison, that is exactly what happened :
"As explained by Mercedes technical director James Allison to Motorsport, “If we don’t quite get the pitstop gun cleanly on the nut, then it can chip away at the driving faces of the nut. We call it machining the nut. It is a bit like when you take a Phillips head screwdriver, and you don’t get it squarely in the cross of the screwdriver. You start to round off the driving face of the screwdriver slots, and then you just simply can’t take the screw out of whatever it is you are trying to take it out of because you have no longer got the driving faces.”" www.carscoops.com/2021/05/the-stripped-wheel-nut-that-ended-valtteri-bottas-monaco-gp-is-still-stuck-on-the-car/Then you really have to admire teams like Red Bull that can change wheels in record times without destroying parts of the car. |
|
|
|
Post by snuffmoviestar on May 25, 2021 9:25:21 GMT -8
Is it possible the gun was running the wrong direction? Tightening rather than loosening so it sheared the vanes on the nut in an instant. Perhaps Wilmywood can enlighten?
Also perhaps Merc needs to ensure the metal in the gun facing is softer than the nut vanes so only the gun machines itself instead of the nut. That way grabbing the backup gun could save a disaster from happening. Again Wilmywood is that even possible?
|
|
|
|
Post by wilmywood8455 on May 25, 2021 9:34:43 GMT -8
Is it possible the gun was running the wrong direction? Tightening rather than loosening so it sheared the vanes on the nut in an instant. Perhaps Wilmywood can enlighten? Also perhaps Merc needs to ensure the metal in the gun facing is softer than the nut vanes so only the gun machines itself instead of the nut. That way grabbing the backup gun could save a disaster from happening. Again Wilmywood is that even possible? It is certainly possible it was running backwards when engaged. Lotsa weird shit can happen under duress.
I always switched my impact from off to on before setting it down to remove the old tire and install the new one so I would not lose time trying to put the nut back on backwards, and I didn't have anything else to do in that half second setting it down anyway 
I would not think a soft socket is the answer. This was a very rare occurrence.
Think of it this way ... how many tire changes have we seen in F1 since the last incident like this? It makes complete sense to have the nut be the disposable piece of the puzzle.
Generally speaking, Nascar lug nuts are not reused either, at least not in speed conditions. The studs are hard as hell and the nuts are relatively soft and they bang them on with so much force it stretches the threads slightly on the nuts, because the studs do not stretch.
|
|
|
|
Post by mmi16 on May 25, 2021 11:02:37 GMT -8
I'm still finding it hard to believe the excessive gun speed theory in light of how many wheel changes we've seen without it happening before. Stranger things have happened though. According to Allison, that is exactly what happened :
"As explained by Mercedes technical director James Allison to Motorsport, “If we don’t quite get the pitstop gun cleanly on the nut, then it can chip away at the driving faces of the nut. We call it machining the nut. It is a bit like when you take a Phillips head screwdriver, and you don’t get it squarely in the cross of the screwdriver. You start to round off the driving face of the screwdriver slots, and then you just simply can’t take the screw out of whatever it is you are trying to take it out of because you have no longer got the driving faces.”" www.carscoops.com/2021/05/the-stripped-wheel-nut-that-ended-valtteri-bottas-monaco-gp-is-still-stuck-on-the-car/Just what NASCAR has to look forward to in 2022/ |
|
|
|
Post by wilmywood8455 on May 25, 2021 11:20:13 GMT -8
According to Allison, that is exactly what happened :
"As explained by Mercedes technical director James Allison to Motorsport, “If we don’t quite get the pitstop gun cleanly on the nut, then it can chip away at the driving faces of the nut. We call it machining the nut. It is a bit like when you take a Phillips head screwdriver, and you don’t get it squarely in the cross of the screwdriver. You start to round off the driving face of the screwdriver slots, and then you just simply can’t take the screw out of whatever it is you are trying to take it out of because you have no longer got the driving faces.”" www.carscoops.com/2021/05/the-stripped-wheel-nut-that-ended-valtteri-bottas-monaco-gp-is-still-stuck-on-the-car/Just what NASCAR has to look forward to in 2022/ I doubt it. I'm sure, unsprung weight not being as crucial in Nascar, that they'll use some sort of steel hex nut for their wheels, like we did in GTP all those years ago, and will not toss them after a single tire change. It'll actually save them money since they toss almost all of the lug nuts they use now due to thread deformation after their first tightening. |
|
|
|
Post by Pistola on May 25, 2021 12:32:59 GMT -8
Is it possible the gun was running the wrong direction? Tightening rather than loosening so it sheared the vanes on the nut in an instant. Perhaps Wilmywood can enlighten? Also perhaps Merc needs to ensure the metal in the gun facing is softer than the nut vanes so only the gun machines itself instead of the nut. That way grabbing the backup gun could save a disaster from happening. Again Wilmywood is that even possible? Looking at the instagram it looks like initially the gun is turning clockwise because the mechanics hand is jerked down by the torque when it does engage. F1 guns have an auto reverse setup and right at the end when he comes off the nut you can see a button pop up for reverse. Other videos I have seen of the right front show the nut and axle threaded to tighten in the anticlockwise direction. |
|
|
|
Post by wilmywood8455 on May 25, 2021 12:39:16 GMT -8
Is it possible the gun was running the wrong direction? Tightening rather than loosening so it sheared the vanes on the nut in an instant. Perhaps Wilmywood can enlighten? Also perhaps Merc needs to ensure the metal in the gun facing is softer than the nut vanes so only the gun machines itself instead of the nut. That way grabbing the backup gun could save a disaster from happening. Again Wilmywood is that even possible? Looking at the instagram it looks like initially the gun is turning clockwise because the mechanics hand is jerked down by the torque when it does engage. F1 guns have an auto reverse setup and right at the end when he comes off the nut you can see a button pop up for reverse. Other videos I have seen of the right front show the nut and axle threaded to tighten in the anticlockwise direction. On racecars with RH and LH threaded hubs, the LH threads are on the right and the RH threads are on the left. You can see it on the Toyota GTP, the right side nuts had a Red stripe for Right, the left were bLack for Left (sides of the car, not thread direction). Also much easier to see in full size.
  |
|
|
|
Post by Pistola on May 25, 2021 14:46:46 GMT -8
On the Mercedes the nuts are Red on the right side and blue on the left.
|
|
|
|
Post by wilmywood8455 on May 26, 2021 11:53:10 GMT -8
I just looked at the Instagram video very large and very bright, and it looks like the socket starts in a counterclockwise direction, opposite the way it should have for a LH thread nut on the right side. I'll bet the mechanic started it in the wrong direction and that is what tore up the splines. The clockwise kick of the gun jives with a counterclockwise rotation as well. See for yourselves. Very large and very bright so you can see the rotation. http://instagr.am/p/CPQg8COIPQs |
|
|
|
Post by pushtopass on May 26, 2021 12:35:57 GMT -8
I just looked at the Instagram video very large and very bright, and it looks like the socket starts in a counterclockwise direction, opposite the way it should have for a LH thread nut on the right side. I'll bet the mechanic started it in the wrong direction and that is what tore up the splines. The clockwise kick of the gun jives with a counterclockwise rotation as well. See for yourselves. Very large and very bright so you can see the rotation. http://instagr.am/p/CPQg8COIPQs However, I think that Mercedes would KNOW this for sure and would have mentioned it rather than throwing Bottas under the bus |
|
|
|
Post by Carlo_Carrera on May 26, 2021 12:44:45 GMT -8
However, I think that Mercedes would KNOW this for sure and would have mentioned it rather than throwing Bottas under the bus Mercedes may know and not mentioned it. They clearly could care less about what its said via Bottas. It sure looks like the gun is spinning counterclockwise. |
|
|
|
Post by mikey on May 26, 2021 13:57:29 GMT -8
However, I think that Mercedes would KNOW this for sure and would have mentioned it rather than throwing Bottas under the bus Mercedes may know and not mentioned it. They clearly could care less about what its said via Bottas. It sure looks like the gun is spinning counterclockwise. You need a couple more seconds of that video to see the gun stop spinning and then you can tell for sure |
|
|
|
Post by wilmywood8455 on May 26, 2021 14:02:51 GMT -8
Mercedes may know and not mentioned it. They clearly could care less about what its said via Bottas. It sure looks like the gun is spinning counterclockwise. You need a couple more seconds of that video to see the gun stop spinning and then you can tell for sure Mikey, if you play it a second time on Instagram, blow it up huge, and go really bright on your screen, it is obvious it is spinning counterclockwise, especially clear at the beginning. |
|
jmjgt
Member
Posts: 3,311
|
Post by jmjgt on May 26, 2021 15:03:48 GMT -8
You need a couple more seconds of that video to see the gun stop spinning and then you can tell for sure Mikey, if you play it a second time on Instagram, blow it up huge, and go really bright on your screen, it is obvious it is spinning counterclockwise, especially clear at the beginning. The gun IS turning counter clockwise but notice the gold plunger that pops up as the gun slows down? That's the gun automatically switching itself to the forward (tightening) setting. If you go back and look at the original overhead shot you see the mechanic slapping the back of the gun every time he pulls it away, that him pushing the plunger down to the un-tightening setting. Those setting only work one way, Nut off/nut on. The only thing i can think of is that they mixed up the opposite side's gun, if you look at the video i posted the wheel changer said he always had his spare gun at his side, yet they actually went back to the garage to get the other gun after the first attempt failed. Why is that? was there an equipment failure on lulu's stop that caused a mix up? |
|
|
|
Post by Pistola on May 26, 2021 15:52:21 GMT -8
What is unknown from the video is where in the tire change sequence the clip was taken. If you look at the very start of the video the socket is well seated and there are already aluminum chips on the wheel rim meaning the damage was already done and that nut isn't moving either direction anymore.
|
|
|
|
Post by snuffmoviestar on May 26, 2021 16:16:36 GMT -8
I just looked at the Instagram video very large and very bright, and it looks like the socket starts in a counterclockwise direction, opposite the way it should have for a LH thread nut on the right side. I'll bet the mechanic started it in the wrong direction and that is what tore up the splines. The clockwise kick of the gun jives with a counterclockwise rotation as well. See for yourselves. Very large and very bright so you can see the rotation. http://instagr.am/p/CPQg8COIPQs This makes it even odder for Wolf to even mention Bottas not being perfect in the box. Why cover for an unknown (to us) rather than back a driver that had a shot to be on the podium? The gun was going to machine the nut perfectly lined up or not. Again, if I'm Bottas I refuse to drive if that human is on that corner again. |
|
|
|
Post by Carlo_Carrera on May 26, 2021 16:17:53 GMT -8
Again, if I'm Bottas I refuse to drive if that human is on that corner again. LOL. |
|
|
|
Post by snuffmoviestar on May 26, 2021 16:25:45 GMT -8
Again, if I'm Bottas I refuse to drive if that human is on that corner again. LOL. I'm not kidding. I remember Hamilton's father threatening to pull his son out of Formula One his first season after his first Monaco race with McLaren. Bottas needs somebody to stir up some shit for him. Where's the British media to leap to his defense? Now laugh Carlo. |
|
|
|
Post by Carlo_Carrera on May 26, 2021 16:32:59 GMT -8
I'm not kidding. I remember Hamilton's father threatening to pull his son out of Formula One his first season after his first Monaco race with McLaren. Bottas needs somebody to stir up some shit for him. Where's the British media to leap to his defense? Now laugh Carlo. LOL. |
|
|
|
Post by Carlo_Carrera on May 26, 2021 16:35:01 GMT -8
Mikey, if you play it a second time on Instagram, blow it up huge, and go really bright on your screen, it is obvious it is spinning counterclockwise, especially clear at the beginning. The gun IS turning counter clockwise but notice the gold plunger that pops up as the gun slows down? That's the gun automatically switching itself to the forward (tightening) setting. If you go back and look at the original overhead shot you see the mechanic slapping the back of the gun every time he pulls it away, that him pushing the plunger down to the un-tightening setting. Those setting only work one way, Nut off/nut on. The only thing i can think of is that they mixed up the opposite side's gun, if you look at the video i posted the wheel changer said he always had his spare gun at his side, yet they actually went back to the garage to get the other gun after the first attempt failed. Why is that? was there an equipment failure on lulu's stop that caused a mix up? That gun has RF2 printed on it. What happened to gun RF1? |
|
Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA