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Post by Pistola on May 24, 2021 17:24:58 GMT -8
Isn't the crew the same for both Hambone and Bottas? I thought each driver had their own pit crew? Maybe I'm wrong. I might be wrong. They each have their own crew to set up and maintain the cars but there is a single combined crew that handles the pit stops for both cars. |
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Post by mmi16 on May 24, 2021 17:40:27 GMT -8
Gee - Ferrari's processes that were in effect failed Race Car Repair 101. |
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Post by Pistola on May 24, 2021 19:51:36 GMT -8
^Demel?!! I got a 6 inch cutoff wheel on a grinder that'll kick that things ass...depending on his much of the car they want left usable after I'm done. My thoughts and prayers go out to the Pirelli tire being held hostage in Brackley. |
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Post by boomer on May 24, 2021 21:43:29 GMT -8
Parc Ferme rules restrict the amount of time a team has to inspect their car after qualifying, with just an hour on Saturday before the car is sealed. They get it back at 10am on Sunday morning, just five hours before the Grand Prix. Even after a crash? This seems narrow minded downright stupid to me! |
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Post by kingfisher on May 24, 2021 23:56:03 GMT -8
Would be interesting to see if Leclerc's tranny fails next. Even if the left driveshaft had been replaced, I have strong suspicions that the car would've lasted. Not sure Leclerc had it in him to finish a race requiring complete concentration for 78 laps when he couldn't do however many in Q3.
Love seeing how fast Lewis and Toto start melting down the instant the Merc steamroller starts to stutter. Given their respective records, it would behoove them to exhibit humility and gracious restraint. Toto publicly throwing Bottas under the steamroller is a pathetic and damning indictment of himself and by extension an embarrassment to Mercedes.
Giving a tow to Max in qualifying must have spurred Toto into vengeance-mode at the first opportunity. Can't wait to see if Bottas aids and abets the enemy somewhere down the line just to give his team the finger. Notice the incidence of them fucking up his car but almost never Lewis'.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on May 25, 2021 0:47:31 GMT -8
Parc Ferme rules restrict the amount of time a team has to inspect their car after qualifying, with just an hour on Saturday before the car is sealed. They get it back at 10am on Sunday morning, just five hours before the Grand Prix. Even after a crash? This seems narrow minded downright stupid to me! If you were a race crewman who routinely missed last call at the hotel bar, then was up at 5am to get back to the track, weekend after weekend for an entire season, you might appreciate the series watching out for your mental and physical health by restricting the hours you can work on your cars on race weekends. The people who run race teams will almost always find enough to do to fill all available working hours, necessary or not.
Having those hours restricted is a good thing for the crews.
Moral of story? Don't crash in qualifying. Problem solved.
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Post by mmi16 on May 25, 2021 4:07:55 GMT -8
Even after a crash? This seems narrow minded downright stupid to me! If you were a race crewman who routinely missed last call at the hotel bar, then was up at 5am to get back to the track, weekend after weekend for an entire season, you might appreciate the series watching out for your mental and physical health by restricting the hours you can work on your cars on race weekends. The people who run race teams will almost always find enough to do to fill all available working hours, necessary or not.
Having those hours restricted is a good thing for the crews.
Moral of story? Don't crash in qualifying. Problem solved.
You mean you don't want to go back to the days where the monocoque was built up for qualifying, including the qualifying only engine, and then completely changed, including installation of the race engine, race meeting after race meeting. 'The good old days!' |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on May 25, 2021 5:03:03 GMT -8
If you were a race crewman who routinely missed last call at the hotel bar, then was up at 5am to get back to the track, weekend after weekend for an entire season, you might appreciate the series watching out for your mental and physical health by restricting the hours you can work on your cars on race weekends. The people who run race teams will almost always find enough to do to fill all available working hours, necessary or not.
Having those hours restricted is a good thing for the crews.
Moral of story? Don't crash in qualifying. Problem solved.
You mean you don't want to go back to the days where the monocoque was built up for qualifying, including the qualifying only engine, and then completely changed, including installation of the race engine, race meeting after race meeting. 'The good old days!' Not a chance. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on May 25, 2021 5:08:31 GMT -8
...Moral of story? Don't crash in qualifying. Problem solved. Exactly. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on May 25, 2021 5:08:59 GMT -8
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jfme
Full Member
Posts: 576
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Post by jfme on May 25, 2021 5:26:09 GMT -8
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Post by pushtopass on May 25, 2021 7:05:00 GMT -8
That was pitiful by Toto. Those wheel dudes easily sort that small different out. If I am Bottas, I am looking for another drive. |
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Post by Pistola on May 25, 2021 7:27:11 GMT -8
Parc Ferme rules restrict the amount of time a team has to inspect their car after qualifying, with just an hour on Saturday before the car is sealed. They get it back at 10am on Sunday morning, just five hours before the Grand Prix. Even after a crash? This seems narrow minded downright stupid to me! My reading of the rules says one hour after qualifying is not the case. There may have been some issue at Monaco in getting the car back into the pits to work on it but the rulebook is much different. They also are allowed a small number of late nights for major repairs during the season but I'd guess this wasn't felt to be necessary. The late nights are usually needed when an entire car needs to be built up from the spare tub. |
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r60man
Full Member
Posts: 1,273
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Post by r60man on May 25, 2021 7:37:22 GMT -8
The wheel nuts are aluminum and single use. They are not heat treated, they are not "hard". They are meant to be disposable, only lasting the length of the stint. If there is an issue they want the nut to be trashed, not the axle. The SkySports idiots that were talking about cross threading just showed their engineering ignorance. There is no way a soft aluminum nut could cut new threads onto a steel, or titanium axle. Nope, simple problem caused by starting the gun before it was fully seated onto the nut, striping off the little "vanes" that the gun holds onto.
I have a wheel nut for one of the 1994 Benetton cars. Totally different design, with the traditional "sides" compared to these nuts. The old nuts would get screwed up very easily. This is the first time I have seen this with this style of nut.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on May 25, 2021 7:55:44 GMT -8
I have a wheel nut for one of the 1994 Benetton cars. Totally different design, with the traditional "sides" compared to these nuts. The old nuts would get screwed up very easily. This is the first time I have seen this with this style of nut. I cross threaded a rear wheel nut on the 99 Toyota Eagle GTP at Sears Point in 1990 while Juan was leading the race with the Nissans of Robinson and Brabham breathing down his neck. It was an old style hex nut, steel, (on a steel hub) although inside the hex was a void to lighten it. It was the same nut I had just taken off.
It stopped going on, so I backed it off, made damn sure the gun was level and straight, and banged it back on. It reluctantly, slowly, tightened all the way down. By this time car chief Howard Monise had finished with his other side rear tire and was ready to drop the air jack. As soon as the impact sounded like it was tight, I took it off, 99.9% sure it was on, seated and tight. I nodded at Howard to drop the car. He did, and Juan roared out of the pits with a couple cars lead over Robinson in second and another over Brabham in third.
Howard asked me if it was tight and I said yes. It held, and we went on to win.
Looking at the nut after the race, the starter thread on the nut was split exactly in half about 3/8 of an inch into the thread. The hub was not damaged at all.
WHEW!!! I was a nervous puppy for those 35 or so laps to the finish.
PS ... regarding the unlikelihood of the MBZ guy starting the socket spinning prematurely as the cause of the damage to the nut, all I can say is that in two full seasons changing the wall side rear tire on the 99 in every race and practice session, as well as countless practice pit stops, that was the only time I ever crossed a wheel nut.
Shit happens.
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Post by Pistola on May 25, 2021 8:10:22 GMT -8
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jmjgt
Member
Posts: 3,311
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Post by jmjgt on May 25, 2021 8:11:23 GMT -8
^^^Most likely the nuts are machined out of forged billet aluminum, which is harder and less brittle than cast and hardened aluminum. Using a cast and hardened nut also wouldn't be wise because of the heat transfer from the tires and brakes, hardened aluminum loses temper at relatively low temps depending on what kind is used.
I'm hoping Merc gives a full accounting of just what happened after the nut comes off, I'm still finding it hard to believe the excessive gun speed theory in light of how many wheel changes we've seen without it happening before. Stranger things have happened though.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on May 25, 2021 8:51:14 GMT -8
I'm still finding it hard to believe the excessive gun speed theory in light of how many wheel changes we've seen without it happening before. Stranger things have happened though. According to Allison, that is exactly what happened :
"As explained by Mercedes technical director James Allison to Motorsport, “If we don’t quite get the pitstop gun cleanly on the nut, then it can chip away at the driving faces of the nut. We call it machining the nut. It is a bit like when you take a Phillips head screwdriver, and you don’t get it squarely in the cross of the screwdriver. You start to round off the driving face of the screwdriver slots, and then you just simply can’t take the screw out of whatever it is you are trying to take it out of because you have no longer got the driving faces.”" www.carscoops.com/2021/05/the-stripped-wheel-nut-that-ended-valtteri-bottas-monaco-gp-is-still-stuck-on-the-car/ |
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jfme
Full Member
Posts: 576
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Post by jfme on May 25, 2021 9:08:55 GMT -8
Yes those darn Italian mechanics. Nothing like the British mechanics superiority in tightrning one wheel nut. Of course, unless the driver stops short and causes the mechanic to twist the gun. Sorry, but I could not resist. The bias is beyond ridiculous. Had Ferrari being a British team, they would be tearing Leclerc a new one for crashing on Q3 |
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Post by pushtopass on May 25, 2021 9:23:39 GMT -8
The wheel nuts are aluminum and single use. They are not heat treated, they are not "hard". They are meant to be disposable, only lasting the length of the stint. If there is an issue they want the nut to be trashed, not the axle. The SkySports idiots that were talking about cross threading just showed their engineering ignorance. There is no way a soft aluminum nut could cut new threads onto a steel, or titanium axle. Nope, simple problem caused by starting the gun before it was fully seated onto the nut, striping off the little "vanes" that the gun holds onto. I have a wheel nut for one of the 1994 Benetton cars. Totally different design, with the traditional "sides" compared to these nuts. The old nuts would get screwed up very easily. This is the first time I have seen this with this style of nut. Just to be clear, "cross threading" just means that the threads of the nut are not aligned with the threads of the hub. It does not distinguish if the nut or the hub threads are destroyed in the process. In this case it would have been the nut threads that were destroyed. It still would be called "cross threading". Also, as a metallurgist who studied aluminum alloys extensively, I can tell you that forged aluminum can still be heat treated for additional strength. Forged and heat treated are not mutually exclusive (though for cheaper applications you would just use rolled plate or castings and then heat treat them). Depends on the alloy, the strength they need, and the temperature they expect to see on the hub. |
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Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8
Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8