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Post by pushtopass on Oct 26, 2020 10:48:41 GMT -8
.....Do you, and others on this forum, believe that Seb is a has been and is no longer a great driver? TBD, have to see how he does next year. I would agree here. To me I have always viewed him as someone who was most successful without drama (I think the same with Lewis). IMHO Ferrari requires a driver who can deal with drama. The weird dynamic will be with Stroll senior and if they are willing to let Seb outshine junior as long as he helps out with data and such. Seb will have to be a gracious teammate for this to work, I think. Has he matured enough to do that? If he can relax instead of walking on eggshells, I think he will show some of his former glory. One could question whether such sensitivities disqualify someone as a "great" driver, but I think he is top notch. I am very puzzled by the gap to Charles. |
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Post by boomer on Oct 26, 2020 10:52:36 GMT -8
I think that putting the onus entirely upon Seb is wrong. Ferrari have short-changed Seb ever since L'Eclair was anointed as 'The Chosen One'.
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Post by mmi16 on Oct 26, 2020 12:24:42 GMT -8
I have a serious question. Do you, and others on this forum, believe that Seb is a has been and is no longer a great driver? I think Seb's best years are behind him but I think he still has some great drives in him, the question is can he do them often enough to keep his new Team happy. Ferrari decided their answer is no, RP will have to make their own decision based on their own expectations. Alpha Tauri is happy with Kimi often coming in at the back of the pack so each teams expectations are different.When did Kimi switch from Alfa Romeo to Alpha Tauri? |
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Post by mmi16 on Oct 26, 2020 12:33:53 GMT -8
One thing in todays age we tend to overlook is the reliability of today's F1 cars.
In the 'Golden Age' of F1 many drivers 'made their bones' in being able to get their cars to the finish, more so than their outright speed. Remember to finish first, first you must finish. That is not to say the stars of the Golden Age were slow, but they were able extract all their car had to give, without abusing it into a DNF>
Today's drivers, with the cars as they are driving, can drive the cars past their tires with very little effort. It would be amazing to see the lap times possible if Pirelli was building the best tires they know how to build instead of the rubber bands that the FIA is mandating they build.
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Oct 26, 2020 12:42:28 GMT -8
TBD, have to see how he does next year. I would agree here. To me I have always viewed him as someone who was most successful without drama (I think the same with Lewis). IMHO Ferrari requires a driver who can deal with drama. The weird dynamic will be with Stroll senior and if they are willing to let Seb outshine junior as long as he helps out with data and such. Seb will have to be a gracious teammate for this to work, I think. Has he matured enough to do that? If he can relax instead of walking on eggshells, I think he will show some of his former glory. One could question whether such sensitivities disqualify someone as a "great" driver, but I think he is top notch. I am very puzzled by the gap to Charles. Ferrari is keeping the development cards close to their chest with Vettel going to Aston next year, and i think Seb's accepted that fact. |
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Post by mmi16 on Oct 26, 2020 13:47:35 GMT -8
I would agree here. To me I have always viewed him as someone who was most successful without drama (I think the same with Lewis). IMHO Ferrari requires a driver who can deal with drama. The weird dynamic will be with Stroll senior and if they are willing to let Seb outshine junior as long as he helps out with data and such. Seb will have to be a gracious teammate for this to work, I think. Has he matured enough to do that? If he can relax instead of walking on eggshells, I think he will show some of his former glory. One could question whether such sensitivities disqualify someone as a "great" driver, but I think he is top notch. I am very puzzled by the gap to Charles. Ferrari is keeping the development cards close to their chest with Vettel going to Aston next year, and i think Seb's accepted that fact. I feature the only years Ferrari was not based on drama was during the Schumacher, Todt, Brawn years. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Oct 26, 2020 13:54:10 GMT -8
I would agree here. To me I have always viewed him as someone who was most successful without drama (I think the same with Lewis). IMHO Ferrari requires a driver who can deal with drama. The weird dynamic will be with Stroll senior and if they are willing to let Seb outshine junior as long as he helps out with data and such. Seb will have to be a gracious teammate for this to work, I think. Has he matured enough to do that? If he can relax instead of walking on eggshells, I think he will show some of his former glory. One could question whether such sensitivities disqualify someone as a "great" driver, but I think he is top notch. I am very puzzled by the gap to Charles. Ferrari is keeping the development cards close to their chest with Vettel going to Aston next year, and i think Seb's accepted that fact. Yes, Ferrari are giving Vettel the, "you still here?" treatment. As they should because he is leaving. We will know what Vettel is next season. |
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Post by overboost on Oct 26, 2020 14:16:33 GMT -8
Vettel is racing often with Raikkonen. Perhaps he is getting the 'customer' engine similar to the Alfa's.
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Post by mmi16 on Oct 26, 2020 14:45:34 GMT -8
Vettel is racing often with Raikkonen. Perhaps he is getting the 'customer' engine similar to the Alfa's. I feel certain he is - maybe even the Haas version. I know the FIA says customer engines are supposed to be the equal of manufacturer engines! I also believe in the Easter Bunny and Great Pumpkin, which have the same purchase on reality. |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Oct 26, 2020 15:02:03 GMT -8
Vettel is racing often with Raikkonen. Perhaps he is getting the 'customer' engine similar to the Alfa's. By the rules Ferrari has to supply only one specialization PU, any in season updates have to made available to the customer teams as well. That doesn't mean they have to turn Seb's engine up to equal his team mate's though. Vettel is driving the car he's gonna be driving to season's end, no bells, whistles or frills. |
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Post by kingfisher on Oct 26, 2020 15:38:01 GMT -8
Marko needs to swallow his pride and put Gasly back in that car.  Marko needs to swallow his pride and put Perez in that car. 1 Bulldozer in that team is enough! 2 Red Bulls in the China Shop is more than any team could afford. |
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Post by kingfisher on Oct 26, 2020 16:00:19 GMT -8
One thing in todays age we tend to overlook is the reliability of today's F1 cars. In the 'Golden Age' of F1 many drivers 'made their bones' in being able to get their cars to the finish, more so than their outright speed. Remember to finish first, first you must finish. That is not to say the stars of the Golden Age were slow, but they were able extract all their car had to give, without abusing it into a DNF> It certainly didn't require abuse of the equipment to ensure a DNF. Some drivers were notoriously harder on the equipment than others, but circumstances beyond their control often dictated the result. Lack of reliability in the engines and their ancillaries was the key factor in the overwhelming majority of retirements, and there were many. In recent years, the regulations and more sophisticated engineering, computational and testing methods along with essentially the 'de-tuning' by way of rev limiting (regulations), have ensured that manufacturers are able to save costs that normally spiraled up when associated with the all-out-war mentality of days past. |
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Post by kingfisher on Oct 26, 2020 16:17:27 GMT -8
I have a serious question. Do you, and others on this forum, believe that Seb is a has been and is no longer a great driver? On the face of it one could draw that conclusion, but there are other legitimate factors at play here. I've often been suspicious of Ferrari's control of his situation, ever since his melt-down at the German GP when he tossed it into the gravel and consequently initiated the decline of his championship hopes that year. This years performance seemed a forgone conclusion with no renewed contract and a favored child in the other car. It's unknown to us what Ferrari gives him in equipment and support and I feel sorry for him and have wondered if he'd rather have just sat out the protracted train-wreck this season has been for him. This cannot be good for his confidence and I wouldn't put it past Ferrari to sabotage him or any driver in their team that they no longer respected or want. If he re-establishes himself next year that will be great for him, but only the car, team and his resilience will determine if he is truly past it or not. We shall see. |
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Post by Pistola on Oct 26, 2020 17:28:59 GMT -8
Seb went to Ferrari with the assumption that Marchionne would be there in his corner the same way Marko always was. Marchionnes' death only 3 days after the 2018 German GP changed the whole dynamic in the team leadership and it's relation to Vettel. The shift in support to LeClerc in 2019 was inevitable and probably not something Marchionne would have initiated. It's hard to say what 2019 would have been like for Vettel if Marchionne had lived.
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Oct 26, 2020 17:48:31 GMT -8
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Oct 27, 2020 3:40:20 GMT -8
There are differing opinions on the issue:
Why Ferrari hobbling Vettel doesn’t make any sense |
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Post by mmi16 on Oct 27, 2020 8:02:26 GMT -8
There are differing opinions on the issue:
Why Ferrari hobbling Vettel doesn’t make any sense Through its history there have been numerous times Ferrari's actions didn't make sense. |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Oct 27, 2020 8:43:51 GMT -8
There are differing opinions on the issue:
Why Ferrari hobbling Vettel doesn’t make any sense So Chuck is what the car needs right now and Seb's preferences are holding him back, funny thing is Ferrari's saying their focusing on more rear downforce for next years car. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Oct 27, 2020 12:23:19 GMT -8
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Post by mikey on Oct 27, 2020 12:30:00 GMT -8
I think Seb's best years are behind him but I think he still has some great drives in him, the question is can he do them often enough to keep his new Team happy. Ferrari decided their answer is no, RP will have to make their own decision based on their own expectations. Alpha Tauri is happy with Kimi often coming in at the back of the pack so each teams expectations are different.When did Kimi switch from Alfa Romeo to Alpha Tauri? Damn these similar names!!!! Of course YOU are right...again! LOL! |
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Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8
Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8