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Post by Pistola on Oct 12, 2020 7:23:53 GMT -8
No matter what the number is, they shouldn't be able to use one of those excursions to complete an overtake, which is exactly what I saw several times at T1. Leclerc did it 2 laps in a row. Ridiculous. Same goes for going wide while defending. They should have to give up that position just as attacking drivers should have to give back a position gained by going wide. The problem with the exit of turn one is it's part of a piece of track that by-passes the turns 2, 3 and 4 so there won't be any gravel traps or grass placed there. Nor do i think they'll install high curbs. That's a relatively safe part of track so the best solution would be some well placed "jersey barriers" about a meter outside of track limits. The drivers would still have a little leeway to gather a sliding car up a bit but they would not be allowed the liberties they have now. That will however pretty much take away most of the overtakes down there. F' it. Just move the white lines. |
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Post by mikey on Oct 12, 2020 7:37:01 GMT -8
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Post by olderguysrule on Oct 21, 2020 10:29:02 GMT -8
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Post by mmi16 on Oct 21, 2020 11:55:00 GMT -8
The problem with the exit of turn one is it's part of a piece of track that by-passes the turns 2, 3 and 4 so there won't be any gravel traps or grass placed there. Nor do i think they'll install high curbs. That's a relatively safe part of track so the best solution would be some well placed "jersey barriers" about a meter outside of track limits. The drivers would still have a little leeway to gather a sliding car up a bit but they would not be allowed the liberties they have now. That will however pretty much take away most of the overtakes down there. F' it. Just move the white lines. The track should apply its own penalties for exceeding its limits - not painted lines. |
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Post by mikey on Oct 21, 2020 12:45:41 GMT -8
F' it. Just move the white lines. The track should apply its own penalties for exceeding its limits - not painted lines. Then how would the track be usable by other motor sports, bikes can't have that stuff, even some cars can't have that stuff. You are asking tracks to be one thing and one thing only an F1 track and nothing else...and that's not economically feasible. The Officials have to deal with where they are racing and that means white lines, sausage curbs and even esses to control the cars. |
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Post by mmi16 on Oct 21, 2020 14:00:01 GMT -8
The track should apply its own penalties for exceeding its limits - not painted lines. Then how would the track be usable by other motor sports, bikes can't have that stuff, even some cars can't have that stuff. You are asking tracks to be one thing and one thing only an F1 track and nothing else...and that's not economically feasible. The Officials have to deal with where they are racing and that means white lines, sausage curbs and even esses to control the cars. Grass, gravel, sausage curbs, hay bales there many ways track limits be defined other than a painted line - giving a racer an area to 'race on' without his car experiencing a area enforced time or damage penalty and the racer will use it - painted lines of themselves do not delay to car that violates them. Maybe get creative - make the out of bounds area of highly polished concrete, maybe with a Teflon coating - The object of Track Limits if for them not to be exceeded - not for them a bone of contention between racers and officials, which applies to all forms of competition. |
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Post by mikey on Oct 21, 2020 15:33:27 GMT -8
Then how would the track be usable by other motor sports, bikes can't have that stuff, even some cars can't have that stuff. You are asking tracks to be one thing and one thing only an F1 track and nothing else...and that's not economically feasible. The Officials have to deal with where they are racing and that means white lines, sausage curbs and even esses to control the cars. Grass, gravel, sausage curbs, hay bales there many ways track limits be defined other than a painted line - giving a racer an area to 'race on' without his car experiencing a area enforced time or damage penalty and the racer will use it - painted lines of themselves do not delay to car that violates them. Maybe get creative - make the out of bounds area of highly polished concrete, maybe with a Teflon coating - The object of Track Limits if for them not to be exceeded - not for them a bone of contention between racers and officials, which applies to all forms of competition. I'm not sure any Team would ever agree to having their car dillberately destroyed because the driver was pushing and went over a line, sure they push in Monaco etc but they pay for it too and that's very expensive and one reason there's very little passing, no place to get it done before you wreck. Now should passing be allowed while being outside the white lines...absolutely not but it does give the driver a chance to at least try the pass and to keep it within the track limits without destroying their race if they fail. I'd much rather see a driver take a spot and then have to give it back because he went beyond track limits then a follow the leader race. Maldonado was exicting to watch because of his extraordinary passing tries but he just damaged too much equipment to keep. |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Oct 21, 2020 17:57:42 GMT -8
Then how would the track be usable by other motor sports, bikes can't have that stuff, even some cars can't have that stuff. You are asking tracks to be one thing and one thing only an F1 track and nothing else...and that's not economically feasible. The Officials have to deal with where they are racing and that means white lines, sausage curbs and even esses to control the cars. Grass, gravel, sausage curbs, hay bales there many ways track limits be defined other than a painted line - giving a racer an area to 'race on' without his car experiencing a area enforced time or damage penalty and the racer will use it - painted lines of themselves do not delay to car that violates them. Maybe get creative - make the out of bounds area of highly polished concrete, maybe with a Teflon coating - The object of Track Limits if for them not to be exceeded - not for them a bone of contention between racers and officials, which applies to all forms of competition. I don't understand why you want to see cars destroyed but whatever, it'd probably be better to put high abrasion material (like the red zones in Paul Ricard) to root the tires of habitual out of bounders on the exit curbs. That way the cars will still be penalized without ending someone's race just because they were actually pushing their limits. |
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Post by mmi16 on Oct 21, 2020 18:29:21 GMT -8
Grass, gravel, sausage curbs, hay bales there many ways track limits be defined other than a painted line - giving a racer an area to 'race on' without his car experiencing a area enforced time or damage penalty and the racer will use it - painted lines of themselves do not delay to car that violates them. Maybe get creative - make the out of bounds area of highly polished concrete, maybe with a Teflon coating - The object of Track Limits if for them not to be exceeded - not for them a bone of contention between racers and officials, which applies to all forms of competition. I don't understand why you want to see cars destroyed but whatever, it'd probably be better to put high abrasion material (like the red zones in Paul Ricard) to root the tires of habitual out of bounders on the exit curbs. That way the cars will still be penalized without ending someone's race just because they were actually pushing their limits. Destroyed - No Fucking Way. Drivers control their cars, with painted lines they driver OUT OF CONTROL. Cars are in the hands of the drivers, they are the ones that would be destroying the cars. When you create situations where there is no REAL consequence to 'exceeding track limits' there is no real penalty. How about - if you exceed the painted line - YOU ARE RETIRED FROM THE BALANCE OF THE EVENT. There has to be REAL CONSEQUENCE - a 10 second penalty or loss of lap time is no consequence at all. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2020 6:00:54 GMT -8
I don't understand why in the hell everybody seems to think mmi16 is talking about destroying the fucking cars if they exceed the track boundaries.
I think using hay bales is a great idea.
Yeah, contact with one or 2 may cause some damage, but you know what?
Don't hit the damn things.
Problem solved.
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Post by hairyscotsman on Oct 22, 2020 6:21:20 GMT -8
Yeah, I've been wondering how F1 thinks just testing at the start of the weekend is going to be effective. Has this been the protocol all along - testing on Tuesday and then Sunday, with no isolation between tests? If so ... holy crap. A person can be infected for 5 days or more before the test will even detect the virus, and longer than that before showing symptoms. The Stroll case is a perfect illustration of the inadequacy of the F1 bubble, imho. If he had symptoms already on Saturday morning, then he was already infected well before he arrived and probably before Tuesday. One negative test, even if it's a good test and performed properly, doesn't actually mean you aren't infected. In order to confirm a negative result, you need two negative test results, at least five days apart, with isolation for the duration between them. The way I understand it, if they aren't doing that before allowing people into the bubble, then they might as well not be testing at all because, just as in the Stroll case, they are likely letting COVID-infected people into the bubble. www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-says-stroll-illness-hasnt-exposed-covid-testing-loophole/4894709/?ic_source=home-page-widget&ic_medium=widget&ic_campaign=widget-6If he was tested on Tuesday and then Thursday or Friday upon entry, that's only a 2 or 3 day gap between tests. The way I've understood it, that's not enough. A person could easily have the virus and would likely test negative both times in such a scenario. The way I understand it, if you're getting tested prior to entering the paddock on Thursday, in order to be considered "covid-free" you'd also need a negative test 5 days prior to that, and isolation between tests. For example, in order for someone to enter the bubble on Thursday they'd need to test negative on the prior Saturday, then isolate until Thursday and test negative again in order to be considered truly covid-negative. |
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Post by olderguysrule on Oct 22, 2020 7:19:42 GMT -8
^^ The only bubble that has worked so far as I know is what the NBA did. Anybody like Stroll getting on a plane ( the worst thing)and thinking their in some sort of bubble is dreaming.
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Post by mmi16 on Oct 22, 2020 8:37:02 GMT -8
I don't understand why in the hell everybody seems to think mmi16 is talking about destroying the fucking cars if they exceed the track boundaries. I think using hay bales is a great idea. Yeah, contact with one or 2 may cause some damage, but you know what? Don't hit the damn things. Problem solved. Track limits are LIMITS because BAD THINGS HAPPEN. A minor time penalty or loss of a lap time is not a BAD THING - it is a annoyance. Penalizing 'bad things' as annoyances encourages drivers to do more bad things. The penalty of exceeding track limits needs to be draconian, not an annoyance. If one is to rely on painted lines as track limits, then the penalty for exceeding them should be having the car PARKED for the balance of the session - be that practice, qualifying or the race.. No three warnings and then a annoyance penalty. |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Oct 22, 2020 8:58:17 GMT -8
I don't understand why you want to see cars destroyed but whatever, it'd probably be better to put high abrasion material (like the red zones in Paul Ricard) to root the tires of habitual out of bounders on the exit curbs. That way the cars will still be penalized without ending someone's race just because they were actually pushing their limits. Destroyed - No Fucking Way. Drivers control their cars, with painted lines they driver OUT OF CONTROL. Cars are in the hands of the drivers, they are the ones that would be destroying the cars. When you create situations where there is no REAL consequence to 'exceeding track limits' there is no real penalty. How about - if you exceed the painted line - YOU ARE RETIRED FROM THE BALANCE OF THE EVENT. There has to be REAL CONSEQUENCE - a 10 second penalty or loss of lap time is no consequence at all. Seriously, we saw what a loss of lap time did to Hamilton's race in Sochi, and 10 seconds per infraction adds up especially in the mid field. Hay bales and other movable barriers will just bring out more SC's and FCY's because they'll have to be replaced every time a driver hits one, and drivers WILL be hitting them. The problem with track limits is they weren't enforced for way too long, nor were they instilled in the lower ranked series letting the drivers get sloppy, most of that is down to the FIA not wanting to spend the money for the personnel, they'd rather make the track owners solve THEIR problem. You noticed nobody runs as wide out of the first corner at Spa like they used to in the 90's anymore, that's because there's somebody down there taking names. |
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Post by mmi16 on Oct 22, 2020 9:12:06 GMT -8
Destroyed - No Fucking Way. Drivers control their cars, with painted lines they driver OUT OF CONTROL. Cars are in the hands of the drivers, they are the ones that would be destroying the cars. When you create situations where there is no REAL consequence to 'exceeding track limits' there is no real penalty. How about - if you exceed the painted line - YOU ARE RETIRED FROM THE BALANCE OF THE EVENT. There has to be REAL CONSEQUENCE - a 10 second penalty or loss of lap time is no consequence at all. Seriously, we saw what a loss of lap time did to Hamilton's race in Sochi, and 10 seconds per infraction adds up especially in the mid field. Hay bales and other movable barriers will just bring out more SC's and FCY's because they'll have to be replaced every time a driver hits one, and drivers WILL be hitting them. The problem with track limits is they weren't enforced for way too long, nor were they instilled in the lower ranked series letting the drivers get sloppy, most of that is down to the FIA not wanting to spend the money for the personnel, they'd rather make the track owners solve THEIR problem. You noticed nobody runs as wide out of the first corner at Spa like they used to in the 90's anymore, that's because there's somebody down there taking names. Park their asses. Time penalties are a annoyance. Painted lines in lieu of solid objects as track limits should have the same draconian penalty as the car impacting the solid object (except the mechanics don't have to spend hours repairing the damage). |
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Post by hairyscotsman on Oct 22, 2020 9:50:26 GMT -8
^^ The only bubble that has worked so far as I know is what the NBA did. Anybody like Stroll getting on a plane ( the worst thing)and thinking their in some sort of bubble is dreaming. Yep. And the NHL. From what I can tell, with the way F1's doing it, there is no actual bubble at all ... just the illusion of one. Of course, Stroll isn't flying commercial with us little people, but he's still not likely to be isolating and F1's protocol doesn't seem to ask that of anyone. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2020 9:52:07 GMT -8
I give up.
Let's just give all the drivers Gold Stars for showing up.
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Post by olderguysrule on Oct 22, 2020 10:47:07 GMT -8
^^ The only bubble that has worked so far as I know is what the NBA did. Anybody like Stroll getting on a plane ( the worst thing)and thinking their in some sort of bubble is dreaming. Yep. And the NHL. From what I can tell, with the way F1's doing it, there is no actual bubble at all ... just the illusion of one. Of course, Stroll isn't flying commercial with us little people, but he's still not likely to be isolating and F1's protocol doesn't seem to ask that of anyone. I lost track of the hockey thing when my local team went out in the 1st round. :-) |
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Post by pushtopass on Oct 22, 2020 11:15:21 GMT -8
Fuck it; just let the drivers go wherever they need to. If they go outside the lines then fine if that's faster. At least we might get more passing and isn't that what we want?
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Post by boomer on Oct 22, 2020 12:35:25 GMT -8
I suggest 'Figure-eight' sections on all circuits. 'Balls out' racing!  |
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Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8
Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8