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Post by boiler on Aug 21, 2020 17:36:10 GMT -8
Ehh I think that's part of the problem, IMO better to take the chance than hide in the corner it worked out for Honda/Brawn
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Post by mmi16 on Aug 21, 2020 19:17:47 GMT -8
Ehh I think that's part of the problem, IMO better to take the chance than hide in the corner it worked out for Honda/Brawn Unfortunately F1 has progressed well beyond the 'win at any cost' business model. When a team consisted of 15 or 20 people working with common shop tools you could always spend a little more than was coming in to create a 'edge' to wring victory out of your car(s). Now, F1 teams employ 500, 1000 and more and the tools necessary to construct the cars run into the multi-millions of dollars let alone the employees necessary to be trained to operate the equipment. Today's F1 is a business, not a sport. Unless a team can justify its expenditures - it doesn't make them. The normal fan can't even notice the 'new tweaks' that the teams apply race to race - a wicker on a wing surface here, a 2 degree different angle on another wing there, a barge board having it surface area changed by 6 square centimetres - and on an on. The floor changes made we can't even see - unless the car is wrecked in someway that it ends bottom up and cameras get a good look at it. |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Aug 22, 2020 4:17:06 GMT -8
I think Williams will be gone in a couple of years or sold to someone else at a higher price than what this PE firm bought them for. That is what PE firms exist for. There is no long term plan here. It is how quick can we turn a profit on this hot mess. $$$$$$$$$$ Also, bye bye Claire. They would be dumb to keep her. Not so fast. That's not Dorilton's style ...
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Post by montybriscoe on Aug 22, 2020 5:13:23 GMT -8
I think Williams will be gone in a couple of years or sold to someone else at a higher price than what this PE firm bought them for. That is what PE firms exist for. There is no long term plan here. It is how quick can we turn a profit on this hot mess. $$$$$$$$$$ Also, bye bye Claire. They would be dumb to keep her. Not so fast. That's not Dorilton's style ...
Gonna be a lot of changes at Williams over the next six months, I can almost assure you. Fun times to be an employee at Williams!🤣 |
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Post by chernaudi on Aug 22, 2020 5:36:33 GMT -8
Considering that they sold controlling ownership of the team to someone else, I'm betting that the team will, to some extent at least, be at the whims of the new majority owners.
In other words, Frank and Claire may just be figureheads at the end of the day. Same thing at Richard Petty Motorsports in NASCAR, where Petty is basically a figurehead with a minority ownership stake as far as the behind the scenes operation of the team.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Aug 22, 2020 6:19:30 GMT -8
Not so fast. That's not Dorilton's style ...
Gonna be a lot of changes at Williams over the next six months, I can almost assure you. Fun times to be an employee at Williams!🤣 No doubt. |
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Post by rmp0012002 on Aug 22, 2020 9:58:32 GMT -8
Not big on equity/investment firms buying teams, it’s not about winning it’s about profit. With the salary structure in F1 teams know what they are going to make so these firms will either cut employees and R&D and in general put less back into racing to make that profit.
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Post by Pistola on Aug 22, 2020 10:40:12 GMT -8
Considering that they sold controlling ownership of the team to someone else, I'm betting that the team will, to some extent at least, be at the whims of the new majority owners.
In other words, Frank and Claire may just be figureheads at the end of the day. Same thing at Richard Petty Motorsports in NASCAR, where Petty is basically a figurehead with a minority ownership stake as far as the behind the scenes operation of the team.
To be clear the Williams team was sold outright as in 100%. The family and any other shareholders no longer have any part of team ownership which is solely in the hands of Dorilton. |
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Post by Pistola on Aug 22, 2020 11:05:38 GMT -8
However in a sign that the sun is still setting on the British Empire after 70 years of F1 there is no longer a team that can claim British ownership.
There are now 2 American owned teams which is a high water since the 70's when there were 3.
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Post by wayfast on Aug 22, 2020 13:05:14 GMT -8
Not big on equity/investment firms buying teams, it’s not about winning it’s about profit. With the salary structure in F1 teams know what they are going to make so these firms will either cut employees and R&D and in general put less back into racing to make that profit. The yearly return on investment for any F1 team is not very good. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Aug 22, 2020 13:24:41 GMT -8
The way I see it milking Williams of FOM payout cash will not yield much profit. The only way to make money off this purchase is to use the budget cap era to turn Williams into a front runner. This works in two ways. They collect more end of the year prize money and increase the value of the team dramatically for another potential sale.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Aug 22, 2020 14:13:45 GMT -8
The way I see it milking Williams of FOM payout cash will not yield much profit. The only way to make money off this purchase is to use the budget cap era to turn Williams into a front runner. This works in two ways. They collect more end of the year prize money and increase the value of the team dramatically for another potential sale. Exactly. |
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Post by chernaudi on Aug 22, 2020 14:57:15 GMT -8
Or Williams performs better, but the new owners hemorrhage money on it and decide to sell for whatever price they can get to cut their losses. Best case scenario for Williams to get back control of the team and it not be damn near back of the pack. But then again, Williams hasn't benefited from an engine supply deal with full factory backing since BMW left, haven't had much other corporate sponsorship since Rothmans/Winfield/BAT left due to coming tobacco advertising restrictions, and in a lot of ways, the team was stuck in the past and never really improved once they became a mid-pack team.
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Aug 22, 2020 15:27:23 GMT -8
Or Williams performs better, but the new owners hemorrhage money on it and decide to sell for whatever price they can get to cut their losses. Best case scenario for Williams to get back control of the team and it not be damn near back of the pack. But then again, Williams hasn't benefited from an engine supply deal with full factory backing since BMW left, haven't had much other corporate sponsorship since Rothmans/Winfield/BAT left due to coming tobacco advertising restrictions, and in a lot of ways, the team was stuck in the past and never really improved once they became a mid-pack team. This really make no sense unless you believe Dorilton Capital are incompetent and all their success to this point has been luck. That's a tough sell. |
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Post by chernaudi on Aug 22, 2020 16:26:14 GMT -8
Name someone who's ever made a profit on a F1 team until they sold it (and even that's debatable)? Not to mention that the price it was bought for was like 25% of Mercedes' engine development budget for their 2014 engine package.
Just dumping money into something won't automatically fix their problems. Ask Toyota Gazoo Racing Europe how their F1 program went when the head office in Toyota City started meddling in spite of the expenditure.
Not to mention all the money Gene Haas has dumped into his now mid to back of the pack team for little return. Haas CNC would've been better off sponsoring a team for less money and better promo.
If Haas' F1 team ownership is basically an ego trip, how am I supposed to feel about Dorilton Capital, given that the only similar company I know of (Cerebus) has bankrupted Chrysler and Remington Arms in the past (Remington happening recently, twice), and also lead to both companies making junk as well.
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Aug 22, 2020 16:33:29 GMT -8
Did you not read my post? I wrote Dorilton Capital intends to build up the value of Williams via on track performance and probably sell it to make a profit. What is so confussing?
And selling an F1 team for a profit is actually not that rare. Bernie, Eddie Jordan, Brawn and others have all done it. It is all about getting in at the right price. IMHO Dorilton Capital is buying Williams at the right price.
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Post by mmi16 on Aug 22, 2020 16:44:00 GMT -8
Or Williams performs better, but the new owners hemorrhage money on it and decide to sell for whatever price they can get to cut their losses. Best case scenario for Williams to get back control of the team and it not be damn near back of the pack. But then again, Williams hasn't benefited from an engine supply deal with full factory backing since BMW left, haven't had much other corporate sponsorship since Rothmans/Winfield/BAT left due to coming tobacco advertising restrictions, and in a lot of ways, the team was stuck in the past and never really improved once they became a mid-pack team. With the coming 'F1 monetary cap' it will be difficult to hemorrhage money into Williams. |
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Post by Pistola on Aug 22, 2020 18:39:41 GMT -8
This Dorilton is so under the radar and investing in a race team is outside the norm for them it's almost as if they are fronting this deal for someone else. The mystery of them is that they are a private investment firm who invests for just one family. In general everything they have gone into has been built for the long term and they don't turn things over.
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Post by Sabrina81 on Aug 22, 2020 18:50:43 GMT -8
It wasn't me.
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Post by mikey on Aug 22, 2020 19:21:25 GMT -8
Or Williams performs better, but the new owners hemorrhage money on it and decide to sell for whatever price they can get to cut their losses. Best case scenario for Williams to get back control of the team and it not be damn near back of the pack. But then again, Williams hasn't benefited from an engine supply deal with full factory backing since BMW left, haven't had much other corporate sponsorship since Rothmans/Winfield/BAT left due to coming tobacco advertising restrictions, and in a lot of ways, the team was stuck in the past and never really improved once they became a mid-pack team. With the coming 'F1 monetary cap' it will be difficult to hemorrhage money into Williams. And to me that's why it makes sense to do it now, when the cap comes in every Team will be limited and the back marker Teams have a bigger upside than Teams like Mercedes who need tons of money to find the nth degree of tweaking while a Team like Williams can make bigger gains for much smaller amounts of money. Another thing that might work is Honda is making Red Bull look very good giving Honda more possible customers as long as the price is better than the newly throttled Mercedes engines. Also hopefully in time the Ferrari engine will get better as well giving more options to the Teams looking to get better for their limited amounts of money. |
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Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8
Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA
Jul 12, 2024 22:05:14 GMT -8