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Post by loudpedal on Feb 21, 2020 19:33:35 GMT -8
/^\
In the above illustration, when the ^ is direction of travel that is toe in. When the ^ is up that is negative camber.
Every report I have read says DAS changes toe, not camber.
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Post by rmp0012002 on Feb 21, 2020 19:36:46 GMT -8
That picture should say camber not toe? Camber is the vertical angle of the wheel. Negative camber or positive camber. Toe is the amount the wheels are turned in or out. It’s called Yaw in oval racing because it’s set up for constantly turning one direction. I can’t see the reason for using it on road courses because the turns are in both directions.
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Post by ChemEng on Feb 21, 2020 19:58:50 GMT -8
Maybe I am confused, but this is the way I see it. The only way a steering system can change anything is by moving the steering rods. That makes it most likely that toe is being changed. That is also what seems to happen in the video I saw. Unless the upper or lower suspension arms are adjusted in some way it should not be possible to change camber when moving in a straight line. My conclusion is that toe is being changed and that is affecting camber.
Edit: Now it is correct. My fingers got ahead of my mind.  |
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Post by olderguysrule on Feb 22, 2020 3:37:39 GMT -8
well, now that we've got this toe vs camber thing straightened out, no thanks to mark hughes, I've got to say, I haven't thought this much about toe & camber since the 70ies and late 60ies when I did all the work on my cars, or my buddies did if they had access to a garage hoist. since then if the front end of the car doesn't seem right, bring it in. :-) anybody remember when the schu was racing the red cars 20 years ago. sometimes they had a lot of front negative camber. not as bad as the pic below but ya could see it sometimes in the race.  |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Feb 22, 2020 3:37:49 GMT -8
Wow, this expert tech dude Mark Hughes totally has it wrong. Thanks. Yes, he does. I think where he gets lost is both toe out and negative camber produce excessive inside shoulder heat, but only toe out also drags the tire across the tarmac and produces rolling drag. |
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Post by olderguysrule on Feb 22, 2020 3:40:49 GMT -8
then there's this from the way back when. :-)  |
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Post by mikey on Feb 22, 2020 5:39:01 GMT -8
then there's this from the way back when. :-) That looks like a 'let's try this and see if it helps' thing, I'm betting it didn't!! You lose almost all traction on the inside tire and gain it on the outside tire. |
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jmjgt
Member
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Post by jmjgt on Feb 22, 2020 5:55:47 GMT -8
^Those cars mostly ran on unprepared roads, I've seen old Millers running the same kind of positive camber. My take is those cars were very tail happy so they were actually trying to dial OUT some front traction to balance out the handling.
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Feb 22, 2020 5:57:53 GMT -8
then there's this from the way back when. :-) LOL, toe in and positive camber. That will make for some very interesting handling. |
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Post by racerman967 on Feb 22, 2020 8:04:25 GMT -8
Positive camber works in NASCAR due to banking. Other racecars not so much
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Post by olderguysrule on Feb 22, 2020 9:48:12 GMT -8
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Post by pushtopass on Feb 22, 2020 13:17:14 GMT -8
check the pic. you've got toe and camber mixed. toe out means the front of the tire is splayed out. toe in has the front of the tire splayed in. Camber has the top of the tire splaying in or out.   suspensionsecrets.co.uk/camber/I believe pushtopass understands toe vs camber he was just showing me an interview with a so call "tech expert" who didn't. Yes; that is why I was so confused! Here is an expert confusing me at something I thought I understood well. I thought perhaps it was a British thing :-) Not sure why he had it so wrong. |
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Post by Zytes on Feb 23, 2020 8:44:47 GMT -8
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Post by thirddegree on Feb 27, 2020 11:24:28 GMT -8
McLaren managed 113 laps of testing today, or what they'd call in 2015, "two cars' entire race weekends including practice and qualifying"
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Feb 27, 2020 12:14:14 GMT -8
I very seriously doubt that these cars have two seperate rack gears, the geometry would be different side to side. |
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Post by mmi16 on Feb 27, 2020 13:06:03 GMT -8
I very seriously doubt that these cars have two seperate rack gears, the geometry would be different side to side. Depending on the track - might they want different toe settings for right hand turns and left hand turns, while wanting no toe for the straights? |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Feb 27, 2020 13:23:40 GMT -8
I very seriously doubt that these cars have two seperate rack gears, the geometry would be different side to side. Depending on the track - might they want different toe settings for right hand turns and left hand turns, while wanting no toe for the straights? Have you ever seen a 2 rack gear rack and pinion setup? I have not. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 13:54:02 GMT -8
Depending on the track - might they want different toe settings for right hand turns and left hand turns, while wanting no toe for the straights? Have you ever seen a 2 rack gear rack and pinion setup? I have not. It's a cartoon. |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Feb 27, 2020 14:03:53 GMT -8
Have you ever seen a 2 rack gear rack and pinion setup? I have not. It's a cartoon. Yes but it purports to be a simulation of the way the MB steering works. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Feb 27, 2020 14:25:37 GMT -8
I very seriously doubt that these cars have two seperate rack gears, the geometry would be different side to side. I agree, I believe Mercedes is simply siding the entire steering rack on a track system to effectively change the length of the tierods. |
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Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA