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Post by Spin on May 10, 2019 10:12:24 GMT -8
^ Kevin Kevin Kevin.
It's not about you. The fans pay the bills, including your $14,000,000 annual salary. Whether they're buying tickets, tuning in, supporting YOUR sponsors, or buying stupid shit with your ugly face on it.
Is it safe? Yeah? Then shut up and drive.
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Post by struns on Oct 10, 2019 5:35:35 GMT -8
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Post by JimmyJ4UK on Nov 22, 2019 12:49:22 GMT -8
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Post by chernaudi on Nov 22, 2019 18:01:41 GMT -8
More spec bullshit from NASCAR. But I guess it's either that or they bring back the dreaded specter of BOP. Either way, NASCAR, like GM in Cup, pay attention to this video clip from :24 onwards: http://instagram.com/p/B376qDmJXw5
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Post by noonesfan18 on Nov 26, 2019 11:28:38 GMT -8
Teams are already limited on what they can do chassis wise anyway. What is the difference?
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Post by Spin on Nov 26, 2019 11:48:42 GMT -8
Series have to program their rule books for either "best toys wins" or "best driver wins". The manufacturers in NASCAR and IndyCar want the latter. They cannot afford a spending war like CART had.
There's nothing in between. You can't want "Who can build the best box?" and "Who can setup and drive he car the best?" Formula One and sports car racing seems to want to skate that line and it doesn't seem like anybody's happy.
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Post by Spin on Nov 26, 2019 11:55:21 GMT -8
Teams are already limited on what they can do chassis wise anyway. What is the difference? Costs. It's cheaper to build 250+ chassis a year than 6-40. If they get the costs down, we should see full fields again. I might start watching qualifying again.
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Post by noonesfan18 on Nov 26, 2019 13:58:42 GMT -8
Teams are already limited on what they can do chassis wise anyway. What is the difference? Costs. It's cheaper to build 250+ chassis a year than 6-40. If they get the costs down, we should see full fields again. I might start watching qualifying again. This is all true and I agree but you have too get the teams wanting too build those chassis and wanting too cut costs. While NASCAR has done their damnest (Somewhat successfully) too control costs, teams will still spend $$$$$$$ no matter what. Budget caps will not work unless you make the penalty so bad nobody would dare too do it.
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Post by Spin on Nov 27, 2019 14:20:37 GMT -8
Costs. It's cheaper to build 250+ chassis a year than 6-40. If they get the costs down, we should see full fields again. I might start watching qualifying again. This is all true and I agree but you have too get the teams wanting too build those chassis and wanting too cut costs. While NASCAR has done their damnest (Somewhat successfully) too control costs, teams will still spend $$$$$$$ no matter what. Budget caps will not work unless you make the penalty so bad nobody would dare too do it. Teams will spend what they have, but with the big stuff being spec, the gains they get for each dollar is a lot less.
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Post by noonesfan18 on Nov 27, 2019 23:37:03 GMT -8
This is all true and I agree but you have too get the teams wanting too build those chassis and wanting too cut costs. While NASCAR has done their damnest (Somewhat successfully) too control costs, teams will still spend $$$$$$$ no matter what. Budget caps will not work unless you make the penalty so bad nobody would dare too do it. Teams will spend what they have, but with the big stuff being spec, the gains they get for each dollar is a lot less. Sorry if I don't have faith in the teams not doing it. Past history tells me they will still unable too help themselves.
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Post by Spin on Nov 28, 2019 7:41:58 GMT -8
^ I'll take the racing action in IndyCar with its spec chassis over NASCAR.
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Post by chernaudi on Nov 28, 2019 20:00:55 GMT -8
Even in Indy Car the big money teams (Penske, Ganassi, just to name two) still out perform teams that have fewer money and resources. Granted, they're two of the few teams that can afford all pro driver lineups without pay drivers, but the same has happened in NASCAR since the common template Gen 4.5 car from 2003-2007, let alone the COT (Gen 5) and the current Gen 6 cars.
If teams have the money, they'll spend it to get whatever little advantage they can, no matter how trivial or horseshit the gains seem. At least when rulebooks were more open, an enterprising team could make surprising results. But loopholes have closed and it seems that most of the good ideas have been thought up and beaten to death.
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Post by Spin on Nov 29, 2019 10:11:50 GMT -8
In NASCAR 5 teams won in 41 races (Gibbs, Penske, Gannasi, Stewart/Haas, and Hendricks) Unless you count Spire Motorsports who a race without leading a green flag lap because it rained.
In IndyCar 5 teams won in 17 races (Penske, Harding/Steinbrenner, RLL, AA, CGR).
On the other end of the spectrum, 3 teams (Mercedes, Red Bull, and Ferrari) have won 20 races so far in Formula One.
IMO IndyCar was more interesting this season. Give me spec.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Nov 29, 2019 16:05:17 GMT -8
In NASCAR 5 teams won in 41 races (Gibbs, Penske, Gannasi, Stewart/Haas, and Hendricks) Unless you count Spire Motorsports who a race without leading a green flag lap because it rained. In IndyCar 5 teams won in 17 races (Penske, Harding/Steinbrenner, RLL, AA, CGR). On the other end of the spectrum, 3 teams (Mercedes, Red Bull, and Ferrari) have won 20 races so far in Formula One. IMO IndyCar was more interesting this season. Give me spec. Hear, hear. Give me competition. and I don't care HOW we get there.
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Post by mmi16 on Dec 6, 2019 20:31:17 GMT -8
There is a practical speed limit the cars can safely go and the've limited the cars to that already. Are Prius drivers going to fill the empty seats caused by NASCAR's meddling with the sport? That's exactly the problem. The speed limit was reached at super-speedways 30 years ago and it's been downhill ever since! Now that they've slowed the cars down across-the-board I've stopped watching entirely! They are slowing the cars down in the wrong way. They are making them stable and reducing the potential max speed. Cut down on the tire section so that the drivers ability to carry speed with less footprint is the element that separates the drivers from the posers.
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Post by chernaudi on Dec 6, 2019 20:46:40 GMT -8
I'm in favor of reducing grip to curb speeds, because sometimes taking power away does make the cars easier to drive and easier to maintain momentum. When the ACO cut engine power at Le Mans in 2011 by engine downsizing, Audi and Peugeot produced cars that at LM were only a few seconds off what the cars from 2010 did, and were just as fast at other non-LM tracks because they made up the power loss though mechanical and aero grip. Do we want to see the drivers have to manhandle the cars to get the best out of them, or they go damn near wide open the whole lap?
I don't know, but there's young guys in the road racing crowd who run vintage races and have a blast with cars with less grip and sometimes more power.
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Post by mmi16 on Dec 6, 2019 21:37:44 GMT -8
I don't know, but there's young guys in the road racing crowd who run vintage races and have a blast with cars with less grip and sometimes more power.
The essence of racing has always been that the cars have more power than the combined available mechanical and aerodynamic grip can put to the track. The drivers skill is the vital interface between machine and the track that brings out optimum potential of the car.
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Post by chernaudi on Dec 25, 2019 16:34:12 GMT -8
This article seems to suggest that NASCAR will be using an XTrac 6 speed stick operated semi-automatic gearbox (based on the XTrac V8 Supercars gearbox), independent rear suspension and 14.3 inch wide tires on the Gen 7 car. These also go with 18" wheels that are wider to match the wider tires.
For the tires, for reference, Audi and Toyota as recently as 2013 (last year that LMP1 cars were 2000mm wide until the LMP1 Hypercars start up after Le Mans this year) ran 14.5 inch wide tires on their LMP1 cars, and 14.5 inches is the barrel length of an M4 carbine automatic rifle used by the US Armed Forces. Audi and Porsche in 2015-17 ran 14 inch wide wheels (though not tires) on their LMP1 cars as well.
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Post by JimmyJ4UK on Dec 28, 2019 8:45:09 GMT -8
^Not surprising. The new transmission, independent rear suspension and wider tires should make the road course racing better...everything else, not so much.
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Post by chernaudi on Dec 28, 2019 17:47:12 GMT -8
I'd agree with the wider tires and more aggressive aero if they'd up the power for the car on the ovals. Granted, at the intermediate speedways the cars were getting pretty fast in 2013 when they were making over 900bhp. That probably won't happen because of those speeds and the Gen 7 car is supposed to have like a 5 liter engine max capacity.
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