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Post by hairyscotsman on Sept 27, 2019 12:13:59 GMT -8
It wasn't even close. Once Merc missed their chance, it was never going to be close. Karun and Martin knew it immediately and were already saying Lewis was going to come out behind VER. Martin said he might not even make it out in front of BOT, & he was right, because BOT got a call from the pit wall to slow down so Lewis would come out in front of him. Lewis still came out less than .5s ahead of BOT. HAM's strategy had already failed miserably by the time he pitted. He came out 8+ seconds behind Vettel, 5s behind LEC, & almost 3s behind VER. When he came out, VET was still P5 behind GIO, GAS, RIC, and STR. VET had only just caught STR & the rest of the traffic. When Vettel made his move on GAS, he was 8+ seconds ahead of Lewis on the track. LEC was 3+s behind Vettel, with RIC between them. Max was about 2.5s behind LEC. No way Ferrari was going to implement team orders at that point with Max where he was, and they told LEC that. During that move, Vettel was never ahead of Gasly until Gasly backed off right at the apex, when he was still ahead. He came from so far back on GAS that Martin thought he might get a warning flag for it. , which is 100% historically at this circuit. With Hamilton staying out there was no guarantee Vettel would inherit the lead, especially on a street circuit. Vettel needed to, and did, pull as much of gap as possible precisely for all the reasons I listed plus a possible safety car. . No one cares that the pass might have been risky. This is racing, all passes on track are risky, and Palmer is still a Hamilton slurping , Vettel hating schmuck. I do not care at all what he thinks. No I'm not. We're talking about the situation when Vettel made the move, not before it. Who was going to pass Vettel as the result of a SC? Hamilton had already pitted when Vettel made his move on Gasly, and a SC would not have given anyone the lead ahead of Vettel. Vettel was already leading everyone but GAS and GIO, who still needed to pit, and he was right behind them on the track. Even had there been a SC at that point, Vettel was at worst just going to be in the same position with neither guy ahead having pitted yet, with 31 laps to go. Had either GAS or GIO pitted, even under a SC, they would have come out well behind Vettel. Lewis was already 5 cars behind Vettel when he went for the move on Gasly. LEC was 2 cars back. At Singapore, where it's very difficult to pass, Lewis & VER had no real shot even after a SC ... which is exactly what we saw after the SC that followed ... and Ferrari wasn't letting LEC make a run at Vettel. They all needed a mistake from Vettel. He obliged, but got away with it. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Sept 27, 2019 13:21:15 GMT -8
You are forgetting the possibility of a safety car, which is 100% historically at this circuit. With Hamilton staying out there was no guarantee Vettel would inherit the lead, especially on a street circuit. Vettel needed to, and did, pull as much of gap as possible precisely for all the reasons I listed plus a possible safety car. . No one cares that the pass might have been risky. This is racing, all passes on track are risky, and Palmer is still a Hamilton slurping , Vettel hating schmuck. I do not care at all what he thinks. No I'm not. We're talking about the situation when Vettel made the move, not before it. Who was going to pass Vettel as the result of a SC? Hamilton had already pitted when Vettel made his move on Gasly, and a SC would not have given anyone the lead ahead of Vettel. Vettel was already leading everyone but GAS and GIO, who still needed to pit, and he was right behind them on the track. Even had there been a SC at that point, Vettel was at worst just going to be in the same position with neither guy ahead having pitted yet, with 31 laps to go. Had either GAS or GIO pitted, even under a SC, they would have come out well behind Vettel. Lewis was already 5 cars behind Vettel when he went for the move on Gasly. LEC was 2 cars back. At Singapore, where it's very difficult to pass, Lewis & VER had no real shot even after a SC ... which is exactly what we saw after the SC that followed ... and Ferrari wasn't letting LEC make a run at Vettel. They all needed a mistake from Vettel. He obliged, but got away with it. If a safety car had been called Hamilton definitely could have dived into the pits an exited before Vettel had time to get past him. Vettel did not make a mistake passing Gasly. He took a small risk that helped him win the race. Racing is risky and every on-track pass is risky. Vettel didn't crash and won, end of story. Palmer is still a Vettel hating putz and this opinion on anything to do with F1 isn't worth jack squat. |
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Post by hairyscotsman on Sept 27, 2019 20:30:07 GMT -8
No I'm not. We're talking about the situation when Vettel made the move, not before it. Who was going to pass Vettel as the result of a SC? Hamilton had already pitted when Vettel made his move on Gasly, and a SC would not have given anyone the lead ahead of Vettel. Vettel was already leading everyone but GAS and GIO, who still needed to pit, and he was right behind them on the track. Even had there been a SC at that point, Vettel was at worst just going to be in the same position with neither guy ahead having pitted yet, with 31 laps to go. Had either GAS or GIO pitted, even under a SC, they would have come out well behind Vettel. Lewis was already 5 cars behind Vettel when he went for the move on Gasly. LEC was 2 cars back. At Singapore, where it's very difficult to pass, Lewis & VER had no real shot even after a SC ... which is exactly what we saw after the SC that followed ... and Ferrari wasn't letting LEC make a run at Vettel. They all needed a mistake from Vettel. He obliged, but got away with it. Vettel did not make a mistake passing Gasly. He took a small risk that helped him win the race. Racing is risky and every on-track pass is risky. Vettel didn't crash and won, end of story. Palmer is still a Vettel hating putz and this opinion on anything to do with F1 isn't worth jack squat. LOL, you been hitting the bottle? At this point I'm getting the feeling I'm being trolled. Hamilton absolutely could not have pitted under an SC and rejoined ahead of Vettel at that point, because he wasn't ahead of Vettel. Again, we're talking about Seb's move on Gasly, right? You know, the one that came 4 laps after Lewis pitted and rejoined the race 5 positions behind Vettel. Had a SC been called, how could Lewis pit from 5 positions behind Vettel and come out ahead of him ... and why would he, given that he was set to go to the end & was already entrenched well behind Vettel? Maybe you can explain that one to me. The answer is that that's all nonsensical bs. There was a SC after that, and of course Lewis didn't pit. Why? Probably because it wouldn't have catapulted him magically ahead of Vettel, and would actually have cost him more time & positions. You're taking a pretty high-handed approach here considering that you can't get even the most fundamental aspects of the situation straight, and especially considering that your main justification for Vettel's late lunge on Gasly is that the risk was justified to help keep Lewis from coming out ahead of him should a SC happen (somehow, from 5 cars back). LMAO. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Sept 28, 2019 10:25:02 GMT -8
If a safety car had been called Hamilton definitely could have dived into the pits an exited before Vettel had time to get past him. Vettel did not make a mistake passing Gasly. He took a small risk that helped him win the race. Racing is risky and every on-track pass is risky. Vettel didn't crash and won, end of story. Palmer is still a Vettel hating putz and this opinion on anything to do with F1 isn't worth jack squat. LOL, you been hitting the bottle? At this point I'm getting the feeling I'm being trolled. Hamilton absolutely could not have pitted under an SC and rejoined ahead of Vettel at that point, because he wasn't ahead of Vettel. Again, we're talking about Seb's move on Gasly, right? You know, the one that came 4 laps after Lewis pitted and rejoined the race 5 positions behind Vettel. Had a SC been called, how could Lewis pit from 5 positions behind Vettel and come out ahead of him ... and why would he, given that he was set to go to the end & was already entrenched well behind Vettel? Maybe you can explain that one to me. The answer is that that's all nonsensical bs. There was a SC after that, and of course Lewis didn't pit. Why? Probably because it wouldn't have catapulted him magically ahead of Vettel, and would actually have cost him more time & positions. You're taking a pretty high-handed approach here considering that you can't get even the most fundamental aspects of the situation straight, and especially considering that your main justification for Vettel's late lunge on Gasly is that the risk was justified to help keep Lewis from coming out ahead of him should a SC happen (somehow, from 5 cars back). LMAO. I do not care. Vettel was being pursued by Leclerc and Verstappen. Any time he wasted being held up by a Toro Rosso, sister team to Verstappen, was too much time and could allow Leclerc or Verstappen to pounce. Here is the pass at 2:40. It is completely clean. No one who has ever raced would take issue with it. Palmer is a schmuck and was one of the slowest drivers ever to race in F1. Whatever he says about racecraft is always completely irrelevant. |
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Post by olderguysrule on Sept 28, 2019 12:12:49 GMT -8
so what, seb makes a pass, bumps wheels, and he's on his way. what's the problem?  |
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Post by hairyscotsman on Sept 28, 2019 15:20:57 GMT -8
LOL, you been hitting the bottle? At this point I'm getting the feeling I'm being trolled. Hamilton absolutely could not have pitted under an SC and rejoined ahead of Vettel at that point, because he wasn't ahead of Vettel. Again, we're talking about Seb's move on Gasly, right? You know, the one that came 4 laps after Lewis pitted and rejoined the race 5 positions behind Vettel. Had a SC been called, how could Lewis pit from 5 positions behind Vettel and come out ahead of him ... and why would he, given that he was set to go to the end & was already entrenched well behind Vettel? Maybe you can explain that one to me. The answer is that that's all nonsensical bs. There was a SC after that, and of course Lewis didn't pit. Why? Probably because it wouldn't have catapulted him magically ahead of Vettel, and would actually have cost him more time & positions. You're taking a pretty high-handed approach here considering that you can't get even the most fundamental aspects of the situation straight, and especially considering that your main justification for Vettel's late lunge on Gasly is that the risk was justified to help keep Lewis from coming out ahead of him should a SC happen (somehow, from 5 cars back). LMAO. I do not care. Vettel was being pursued by Leclerc and Verstappen. Any time he wasted being held up by a Toro Rosso, sister team to Verstappen, was too much time and could allow Leclerc or Verstappen to pounce. Here is the pass at 2:40. It is completely clean. No one who has ever raced would take issue with it. Palmer is a schmuck and was one of the slowest drivers ever to race in F1. Whatever he says about racecraft is always completely irrelevant. LOL. Even when he's right. "I do not care", facts be damned! Seems like I've seen this act before. Martin Brundle's raced a little, and he thought it was dodgy & Vettel might get a warning for it. And yeah, I've seen the video plenty of times. Vettel was behind Gasly all the way to the apex, until Gasly was surprised by Vettel's nose and backed off at the apex & took to the runoff because he knew he was gonna get his race ended if he didn't. Vettel just forced his way through from way back and forced Gasly off the track. I know you'll never admit it and don't care, but that's what happened, and I'm not the only one saying it. There are lots of folks saying it, including Ferrari fans and Vettel fans. Gasly saved Vettel from another week of even more intense, unpleasant scrutiny. |
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Post by olderguysrule on Sept 28, 2019 15:48:53 GMT -8
the reason lulu was back in 5th was because they waited till lap, what was it, 26, for a possible safety car. that didn't happen. so let's assume, for a moment, that seb doesn't take the risk, and stays behind what's his name until he pits. and then what happens if there isn't a safety car or three. the safety cars saved sebs race. w/o them he would have ran out of tires since lulu's were what, 7 laps newer. lulu would have had max and seb and charles for lunch. maybe not all of them but prolly two. the point is ya don't win races planning on safety cars in F1. ya deal with the situation at hand. seb needed time because he knew that he, and charles were going to be f+++ed at the end.
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Sept 28, 2019 16:26:42 GMT -8
I do not care. Vettel was being pursued by Leclerc and Verstappen. Any time he wasted being held up by a Toro Rosso, sister team to Verstappen, was too much time and could allow Leclerc or Verstappen to pounce. Here is the pass at 2:40. It is completely clean. No one who has ever raced would take issue with it. Palmer is a schmuck and was one of the slowest drivers ever to race in F1. Whatever he says about racecraft is always completely irrelevant. LOL. Even when he's right. "I do not care", facts be damned! Seems like I've seen this act before. Martin Brundle's raced a little, and he thought it was dodgy & Vettel might get a warning for it. And yeah, I've seen the video plenty of times. Vettel was behind Gasly all the way to the apex, until Gasly was surprised by Vettel's nose and backed off at the apex & took to the runoff because he knew he was gonna get his race ended if he didn't. Vettel just forced his way through from way back and forced Gasly off the track. I know you'll never admit it and don't care, but that's what happened, and I'm not the only one saying it. There are lots of folks saying it, including Ferrari fans and Vettel fans. Gasly saved Vettel from another week of even more intense, unpleasant scrutiny. You really think Palmer is right? Really? Even though no other commentator nor ex-driver nor anyone on this board other than you agrees with him? Really? Even Martin Brundle said at the time is was a clean pass. Palmer was, and always will be, an irrelevant schmuck and Vettel will always be a 4 time WDC. I am channeling my inner Bill Belichick and moving on to Russia. |
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Post by mmi16 on Sept 29, 2019 5:07:33 GMT -8
LOL. Even when he's right. "I do not care", facts be damned! Seems like I've seen this act before. Martin Brundle's raced a little, and he thought it was dodgy & Vettel might get a warning for it. And yeah, I've seen the video plenty of times. Vettel was behind Gasly all the way to the apex, until Gasly was surprised by Vettel's nose and backed off at the apex & took to the runoff because he knew he was gonna get his race ended if he didn't. Vettel just forced his way through from way back and forced Gasly off the track. I know you'll never admit it and don't care, but that's what happened, and I'm not the only one saying it. There are lots of folks saying it, including Ferrari fans and Vettel fans. Gasly saved Vettel from another week of even more intense, unpleasant scrutiny. You really think Palmer is right? Really? Even though no other commentator nor ex-driver nor anyone on this board other than you agrees with him? Really? Even Martin Brundle said at the time is was a clean pass. Palmer was, and always will be, an irrelevant schmuck and Vettel will always be a 4 time WDC. I am channeling my inner Bill Belichick and moving on to Russia. Belichick choked for Ferrari at Russia. |
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Sept 29, 2019 9:26:17 GMT -8
Belichick choked for Ferrari at Russia. It wasn't a choke, it was a mechanical breakdown. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 9:56:59 GMT -8
I maintain that it was the "remote kill switch" in Ferrari's control booth.  |
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Post by hairyscotsman on Oct 2, 2019 11:19:14 GMT -8
LOL. Even when he's right. "I do not care", facts be damned! Seems like I've seen this act before. Martin Brundle's raced a little, and he thought it was dodgy & Vettel might get a warning for it. And yeah, I've seen the video plenty of times. Vettel was behind Gasly all the way to the apex, until Gasly was surprised by Vettel's nose and backed off at the apex & took to the runoff because he knew he was gonna get his race ended if he didn't. Vettel just forced his way through from way back and forced Gasly off the track. I know you'll never admit it and don't care, but that's what happened, and I'm not the only one saying it. There are lots of folks saying it, including Ferrari fans and Vettel fans. Gasly saved Vettel from another week of even more intense, unpleasant scrutiny. You really think Palmer is right? Really? Even though no other commentator nor ex-driver nor anyone on this board other than you agrees with him? Really? Even Martin Brundle said at the time is was a clean pass. Palmer was, and always will be, an irrelevant schmuck and Vettel will always be a 4 time WDC. I am channeling my inner Bill Belichick and moving on to Russia. Brundle never said at the time that it was a clean pass. LOL. Stop making shit up. He said he expected Vettel to get a warning flag. "He might get a warning flag for that. He came from a long way back". Doesn't seem like he'd say that if he thought it was a clean move. Whether anyone on any board agrees with me, or not, is never going to affect my opinion. Never has. And outside this board (or at least outside of those who've posted an opinion here) there were plenty of people who thought that was a very risky move and/or not a clean move. Brundle was one. Felt sorry for Vettel in Russia though... That sucked. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2019 15:57:24 GMT -8
Arrrgh!  |
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Post by mmi16 on Oct 2, 2019 16:42:31 GMT -8
Arrrgh! Pirate Day was last week! |
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Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA