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Post by Power Fan79 on Jun 25, 2019 11:20:40 GMT -8
The fans in Milwaukee deserve better... They stopped showing up. I don’t know what Road America has for attendance but I’m sure it was double what Milwaukee would get.
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Post by Spin on Jun 25, 2019 12:43:16 GMT -8
^ It sold out when they had professionals running it. Marketing makes ALL the difference.
Compare the crowds Roger Penske's group had at his tracks and events (most recently Detroit) to Michael Andretti's group at Milwaukee and NOLA. Penske's professionals were in Cleveland over a month ahead of the race. MA's group showed up at the track on Friday, put a sign out front, and opened the ticket booth. Detroit was dead and gone, RP brought it back. Milwaukee was dead and gone, MA buried it deeper. Seriously, do you know how popular oval racing is in Wisconsin? Bozo the clown could put up some billboards, run some TV ads, and break even.
And who here thinks NASCAR's downturn was caused in part by Bill Jr and Bruton retiring, and Penske selling his tracks? Some of these promotion geniuses today couldn't sell Cowboys tickets in Dallas.
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Post by Buck on Jun 25, 2019 13:39:07 GMT -8
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Post by Power Fan79 on Jun 25, 2019 15:09:12 GMT -8
^ It sold out when they had professionals running it. Marketing makes ALL the difference. Compare the crowds Roger Penske's group had at his tracks and events (most recently Detroit) to Michael Andretti's group at Milwaukee and NOLA. Penske's professionals were in Cleveland over a month ahead of the race. MA's group showed up at the track on Friday, put a sign out front, and opened the ticket booth. Detroit was dead and gone, RP brought it back. Milwaukee was dead and gone, MA buried it deeper. Seriously, do you know how popular oval racing is in Wisconsin? Bozo the clown could put up some billboards, run some TV ads, and break even. And who here thinks NASCAR's downturn was caused in part by Bill Jr and Bruton retiring, and Penske selling his tracks? Some of these promotion geniuses today couldn't sell Cowboys tickets in Dallas. Yep, it has nothing to do with changing demographics and people not caring about ovals much anymore. All it takes is a new promoter. And no, I don’t know how popular oval racing is in Wisconsin. I was going to ask someone in 2015 when I was at the race but there was nobody to ask with shouting distance. Phoenix (twice), Chicagoland, Kansas, Richmond, soon to be Iowa, New Hampshire (twice), Milwaukee (twice), Homestead.
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Post by Spin on Jun 27, 2019 10:15:48 GMT -8
^ It sold out when they had professionals running it. Marketing makes ALL the difference. Compare the crowds Roger Penske's group had at his tracks and events (most recently Detroit) to Michael Andretti's group at Milwaukee and NOLA. Penske's professionals were in Cleveland over a month ahead of the race. MA's group showed up at the track on Friday, put a sign out front, and opened the ticket booth. Detroit was dead and gone, RP brought it back. Milwaukee was dead and gone, MA buried it deeper. Seriously, do you know how popular oval racing is in Wisconsin? Bozo the clown could put up some billboards, run some TV ads, and break even. And who here thinks NASCAR's downturn was caused in part by Bill Jr and Bruton retiring, and Penske selling his tracks? Some of these promotion geniuses today couldn't sell Cowboys tickets in Dallas. Yep, it has nothing to do with changing demographics and people not caring about ovals much anymore. All it takes is a new promoter. And no, I don’t know how popular oval racing is in Wisconsin. I was going to ask someone in 2015 when I was at the race but there was nobody to ask with shouting distance. Phoenix (twice), Chicagoland, Kansas, Richmond, soon to be Iowa, New Hampshire (twice), Milwaukee (twice), Homestead. I have racing friends in WI and I don't have all the stats but I would bet there are more ovals in WI per capital that any other state or province. And MILW is within reach of the third largest market the US. So apparently the demographics are pretty good, especially looking at the attendance and ratings for CART, ASA, NASCAR, ARCA, Hooters ProCup, etc. Interesting list of oval tracks, there's a much longer list of former road/street courses. Maybe we should make a list of successful Andretti Sports Marketing events. Done. ;)
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Post by Codfish on Jun 28, 2019 9:31:52 GMT -8
I'm just happy the Road America race is doing so well... Let's celebrate that great news rather than beating dead horses like Milwaukee, Cleveland, or The Glen...
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Post by Power Fan79 on Jun 28, 2019 21:51:28 GMT -8
Yep, it has nothing to do with changing demographics and people not caring about ovals much anymore. All it takes is a new promoter. And no, I don’t know how popular oval racing is in Wisconsin. I was going to ask someone in 2015 when I was at the race but there was nobody to ask with shouting distance. Phoenix (twice), Chicagoland, Kansas, Richmond, soon to be Iowa, New Hampshire (twice), Milwaukee (twice), Homestead. I have racing friends in WI and I don't have all the stats but I would bet there are more ovals in WI per capital that any other state or province. And MILW is within reach of the third largest market the US. So apparently the demographics are pretty good, especially looking at the attendance and ratings for CART, ASA, NASCAR, ARCA, Hooters ProCup, etc. Interesting list of oval tracks, there's a much longer list of former road/street courses. Maybe we should make a list of successful Andretti Sports Marketing events. Done. ;) Iowa has the most ovals and I live in that third largest market and nobody cares about auto racing of any kind. Further proof of that will be the half empty Chicagoland Speedway this Sunday. And I forgot about Michigan and Fontana as faild ovals. Ovals were succeeding when Marlboro and other sponsors gave out free tickets. I was at Milwaukee in 2004 and the entire lower front stretch was people wearing red Marlboro hats.
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Post by Spin on Jun 29, 2019 4:44:16 GMT -8
So you agree, it all goes back to marketing. As I said, NASCAR attendance started declining when Penske sold his tracks, Bill Jr. retired, and Bruton Smith semi-retired. Then got worse when Brian Braindead started playing with his new toy.
I know people in Chicago and Milwaukee and they saw absolutely no advertising leading up to the last Milwaukee "effort". Same with NOLA. Mikey got ripped off. Heck we all lost. :(
And Cod, Cleveland was never a dead horse, it fell victim of Boy George being unable to figure out a "reunified" <cough> <cough> schedule.
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Post by Codfish on Jun 29, 2019 11:45:55 GMT -8
And Cod, Cleveland was never a dead horse, it fell victim of Boy George being unable to figure out a "reunified" <cough> <cough> schedule. I loved Cleveland and didn't mean it was dead in that sense... I simply meant that whining about its loss is "beating a dead horse..." The fact that no one seems willing to risk a pile of money marketing races like Milwaukee and Chicago tells me quite a bit... Apparently no one views the risk/reward factor as favorable...
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Post by mmi16 on Jun 29, 2019 16:37:48 GMT -8
And Cod, Cleveland was never a dead horse, it fell victim of Boy George being unable to figure out a "reunified" <cough> <cough> schedule. I loved Cleveland and didn't mean it was dead in that sense... I simply meant that whining about its loss is "beating a dead horse..." The fact that no one seems willing to risk a pile of money marketing races like Milwaukee and Chicago tells me quite a bit... Apparently no one views the risk/reward factor as favorable... Cleveland was anything but a 'single line' track!
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Post by Power Fan79 on Jul 15, 2019 20:42:30 GMT -8
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Post by Power Fan79 on Jul 16, 2019 8:14:20 GMT -8
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Post by Power Fan79 on Jul 24, 2019 7:28:20 GMT -8
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Post by Power Fan79 on Jul 30, 2019 9:09:27 GMT -8
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Post by mmi16 on Jul 30, 2019 15:01:14 GMT -8
Have traditional ratings - as such, become antiquated? My son was away from home over the weekend with his wife and daughters and streamed both Germany and Mid-Ohio on his phone. Are the ratings taking into account those who are using other than the traditional over the air TV and/or cable as their viewing platforms?
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Post by Buck on Jul 30, 2019 19:28:22 GMT -8
To me, ratings don't mean anything. If they are going to take the product off the air for rating issues then so be it. Just about everything these days is streamed and you can always watch highlights on YouTube, etc...
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Post by Power Fan79 on Jul 30, 2019 20:45:04 GMT -8
Have traditional ratings - as such, become antiquated? My son was away from home over the weekend with his wife and daughters and streamed both Germany and Mid-Ohio on his phone. Are the ratings taking into account those who are using other than the traditional over the air TV and/or cable as their viewing platforms? The only time I hear people bring this up is with Indycar. It seems to work fine for the NFL, NBA, NHL, and PGA.
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Post by Power Fan79 on Jul 30, 2019 20:49:22 GMT -8
To me, ratings don't mean anything. If they are going to take the product off the air for rating issues then so be it. Just about everything these days is streamed and you can always watch highlights on YouTube, etc... Just about everything is streamed?? Are you serious?? That is so factually inaccurate it’s laughable. Look at the ratings for any sport and you will see how wrong you are. The Road America race had 1.1 million viewers and I believe the digital component was less than 100,000. Over time things will probably change but for now, the ratings do matter most to advertisers. Like I previously said, all other sports the ratings are not questioned but Indycar fans have such denial and I don’t get it. And if you think ratings don’t matter, I would like to know what exactly a company like NAPA looks at to determine dollar amounts? It is what it is and it won’t stop me from being a fan but the reality is the sport is in trouble down the road unless somehow the fan base can get younger.
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Post by Buck on Jul 31, 2019 7:21:35 GMT -8
Not to argue but I can stream local high school basketball and football games. I streamed this year's 500 even without the Gold Pass. And like I say just about every sporting event ends up on YouTube. I agree ratings should matter to sponsors but even they advertise through many different media methods.
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Post by Power Fan79 on Jul 31, 2019 8:44:31 GMT -8
Not to argue but I can stream local high school basketball and football games. I streamed this year's 500 even without the Gold Pass. And like I say just about every sporting event ends up on YouTube. I agree ratings should matter to sponsors but even they advertise through many different media methods. I agree there are many other options for advertisers now. YouTube for example but companies still hold the Nielsen ratings as the pinnacle. Forward thinking companies invest heavily on streaming services and social media because like movie theaters, regular over the air broadcasts are on the way out. Unfortunately the almighty TV rating is what matters most currently.
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