|
Post by ChemEng on Dec 23, 2018 15:00:12 GMT -8
Hydrogen cars are the dumbest idea that the green movement has produced, and that is saying a lot. How do I know that? Because I am highly intelligent, extremely well educated, and I work in the chemical industry (I am also very modest, huh? ). Maybe they will prove me wrong this time, but I doubt it. I have ranted on these boards in the past about the stupidity of hydrogen cars. I have to assume that the technical people and leadership at companies such as Toyota are not stupid, so it seems that the marketing people just cannot pass up a chance to insult a gullible and ignorant public with this type of product – all to demonstrate that they are committed to combating Climate Change.
The problem is that hydrogen is the perfect green fuel that does not exist in its natural state anywhere on earth in usable quantities. All commercially viable means of production require more energy input than will ever be recovered due to inefficiencies at both ends. But it gets worse. Hydrogen is also very dangerous and expensive to store and transport. Enter the latest comical fallacy – ammonia as a “safe” way to produce, store, and transport hydrogen:
How many know of an ice skating ring that has closed, simply because the local authorities are concerned about having large amounts ammonia in a residential community?
Ammonia stands alone as the most efficient refrigerant. Commercially “safe” refrigerants are all on the order of 5 to 8 times less efficient – it takes 5 to 8 times as much electrical power to get the same refrigeration effect. I have expert knowledge of the physical properties, use, and safety of ammonia if anyone is really interested, but I will just leave it at this: In small concentrations it is very offensive, but perfectly safe because it is biocompatible with the human body. In concentrations exceeding the “Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health” (IDLH) level of 300 ppm (0.03 %) it is very dangerous and can cause serious injury and death, not due to toxicity, but from chemical burns because it is caustic when dissolved in water (your lungs and eyeballs).
The concern that people have for the use of anhydrous (dry) ammonia in fixed equipment in a confined equipment room is actually legitimate in a worst case scenario of a massive leak. This concern will be multiplied by orders of magnitude when it is proposed to be stored, transported, and transferred from trucks through hoses on a routine basis. I think it is completely insane to propose the wide spread use of ammonia. To be fair, ammonia is produced as a byproduct of oil refining and used extensively as a fertilizer where it is directly injected into the soil in farm fields. Some would say this proves its safety. I say that is very different than using it as motor fuel with consumers routinely filling their cars.
|
|
|
Post by Zytes on Dec 23, 2018 15:36:41 GMT -8
How many know of an ice skating ring that has closed, simply because the local authorities are concerned about having large amounts ammonia in a residential community? Only closed till the leak was fixed, but still...
From the article...
" Canadian Olympic silver medallist and former world champion figure skater Karen Magnussen can still feel the spot deep in her chest where an ammonia leak burned her lungs six years ago, leaving her disabled and unable to go back to an ice rink to teach the sport she loves. Magnussen, 65, said the deaths of three men this week in Fernie, British Columbia after an ammonia leak at the local arena is a horrible tragedy and she urged communities across Canada to ensure arena cooling systems are regularly maintained and inspected."
|
|
|
Post by Carlo_Carrera on Dec 23, 2018 18:46:06 GMT -8
Let the free market decide.
A few years ago "everyone" thought electric cars didn't make sense but then Tesla.
|
|
|
Post by ChemEng on Dec 24, 2018 9:33:16 GMT -8
Let the free market decide. A few years ago "everyone" thought electric cars didn't make sense but then Tesla. Yes, that would be the free market that is offering government rebates, paying for hydrogen fueling stations, and offering free fuel to anyone who buys the car.
Development of electric cars has followed the development of batteries. I am old enough to remember when alkaline flashlight batteries were first put on the market. I don’t think the old carbon core batteries are still available. The first rechargeable battery in wide spread use was the Ni-Cad and we all know about its limitations. It was the nickel-metal-hybrid that made the original Prius possible. Tesla is using lithium-ion technology, and there are other battery technologies in development.
The problem with these more powerful batteries is fire. Boeing had to ground the entire fleet of 787s due to battery fires. Tesla offered to “help” Boeing redesign their batteries. Boeing said no thanks – we’re making airplanes here pal – but solved the problem by making the battery heavier than if they had not used Lithium. Whoops! Teslas are still catching on fire!
|
|
|
Post by Carlo_Carrera on Dec 24, 2018 12:50:59 GMT -8
Let the free market decide. A few years ago "everyone" thought electric cars didn't make sense but then Tesla. Yes, that would be the free market that is offering government rebates, paying for hydrogen fueling stations, and offering free fuel to anyone who buys the car.
Development of electric cars has followed the development of batteries. I am old enough to remember when alkaline flashlight batteries were first put on the market. I don’t think the old carbon core batteries are still available. The first rechargeable battery in wide spread use was the Ni-Cad and we all know about its limitations. It was the nickel-metal-hybrid that made the original Prius possible. Tesla is using lithium-ion technology, and there are other battery technologies in development.
The problem with these more powerful batteries is fire. Boeing had to ground the entire fleet of 787s due to battery fires. Tesla offered to “help” Boeing redesign their batteries. Boeing said no thanks – we’re making airplanes here pal – but solved the problem by making the battery heavier than if they had not used Lithium. Whoops! Teslas are still catching on fire! And your point is?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2019 21:43:19 GMT -8
Let the free market decide. A few years ago "everyone" thought electric cars didn't make sense but then Tesla. Ahem! Tesla made (their) electric cars a Status Symbol for trust fund baby "entrepreneurs". They drive their Musk-mobiles between their real-estate holdings such as Wine Tasting rooms and Craft Breweries... Sometimes, they will park one of their really cool vehicles, like the Aprilia Tuono or Chevelle SS 396 as a Stage-Prop at the entrance. * Oh... back to the point! Regular folk can't afford to own a Tesla plus the required infrastructure in the garage. ;-)
|
|