|
Post by wilmywood8455 on Jun 14, 2022 7:38:01 GMT -8
Mark Hughes looks at how the Red Bull underfloor design might have made the team less prone to porpoising in Azerbaijan, with technical illustrations from Giorgio Piola.Baku revealed the extent to which porpoising is still being suffered by many cars, but it was notable that the victorious Red Bull was not significantly compromised by the phenomenon, as has been the case since the beginning of the season. As such, the RB18’s underfloor design – which is notably different in both concept and detail to that of their main rivals Ferrari – is generating a lot of attention now that more of it has been revealed following Sergio Perez’s accident in Monaco qualifying. Before looking at the specific details of the floor, perhaps the most significant aspect of its design is how its tunnel roof appears to be higher and more arched than those of other floors. Potentially, this should make it intrinsically less stall-prone.
|
|
jmjgt
Member
Posts: 3,237
|
Post by jmjgt on Jun 14, 2022 13:06:53 GMT -8
And next year everyone else's floor will be a variation on that theme, that's why the FIA and Liberty aren't giving into Merc's bleating.
|
|
|
Post by Pistola on Jun 14, 2022 13:20:52 GMT -8
And meanwhile just as the advantage Merc had in 2014 continued to be a benefit for many years the advantage RB has will keep them one step ahead for some time.
Newey has been pimping CFD lately..............I can see why.
|
|
|
Post by mmi16 on Jun 15, 2022 12:18:46 GMT -8
The porpoise effect at Baku was amplified by the roughness of the surface - when the downward motion of the porpoise would have the floor impact the track surface; creating a impact that dampers could not control.
|
|
jmjgt
Member
Posts: 3,237
|
Post by jmjgt on Jun 15, 2022 15:29:56 GMT -8
And meanwhile just as the advantage Merc had in 2014 continued to be a benefit for many years the advantage RB has will keep them one step ahead for some time. Newey has been pimping CFD lately..............I can see why. Newey said he couldn't model porpoising in CDF so on that end he was as blind as the rest. What he did was design a floor concept that was less prone to aero stalling, Merc decided to go for max downforce then trim off what they couldn't use.
|
|
|
Post by Pistola on Jun 15, 2022 16:25:57 GMT -8
And meanwhile just as the advantage Merc had in 2014 continued to be a benefit for many years the advantage RB has will keep them one step ahead for some time. Newey has been pimping CFD lately..............I can see why. Newey said he couldn't model porpoising in CDF so on that end he was as blind as the rest. What he did was design a floor concept that was less prone to aero stalling, Merc decided to go for max downforce then trim off what they couldn't use. I forgot he said that.....................it's the truth isn't it? He can't model porpoising but he could still design the floor using CFD. It got me wondering how you could test floor concepts in the wind tunnel visually. I suppose using floviz is possible but awfully messy on the equipment.
|
|
jmjgt
Member
Posts: 3,237
|
Post by jmjgt on Jun 15, 2022 16:51:47 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Pistola on Jun 15, 2022 18:14:37 GMT -8
It's most likely done in the tunnel with a shitload of pressure sensors.
|
|
|
Post by mmi16 on Jun 15, 2022 19:33:28 GMT -8
I have been trying to design a high downforce floor for my F500 - difficult when the maximum deviation allowed is 1 inch, between front and rear axle. Especially since I don't have access to a wind tunnel or CFD.
|
|
|
Post by mikey on Jun 16, 2022 4:27:42 GMT -8
I have been trying to design a high downforce floor for my F500 - difficult when the maximum deviation allowed is 1 inch, between front and rear axle. Especially since I don't have access to a wind tunnel or CFD. It seems to me, a non aero guy, that the problem lies in the loss of the downforce at certain times, not the fact that the floor seals, to me that means they need to figure out how to control that release not add more downforce to the car. So maybe a bit less overall downforce that's more controllable than just going for maximum downforce, maybe by looking at the Red Bull's front wing and where that airflow goes they can start to figure out Newey's solution. When they showed the bottom of the Red Bull car some of the channels were directing air out the side of the car not straight on thru to the back of it, I wonder if maybe they are also trying to control the air as it passes alongside the car at ground level to help control the loss of downforce? As for your F500 I'm not so sure downforce will help it do it's thing any better but a nice steel plate covering the front and rear axles might help for those off road excursions.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 4:53:43 GMT -8
I have been trying to design a high downforce floor for my F500 - difficult when the maximum deviation allowed is 1 inch, between front and rear axle. Especially since I don't have access to a wind tunnel or CFD. snip... As for your F500 I'm not so sure downforce will help it do it's thing any better but a nice steel plate covering the front and rear axles might help for those off road excursions. mmi always stays within track limits.
|
|
|
Post by wilmywood8455 on Jun 16, 2022 5:20:52 GMT -8
I have been trying to design a high downforce floor for my F500 - difficult when the maximum deviation allowed is 1 inch, between front and rear axle. Especially since I don't have access to a wind tunnel or CFD. So maybe a bit less overall downforce that's more controllable than just going for maximum downforce, maybe by looking at the Red Bull's front wing and where that airflow goes they can start to figure out Newey's solution. Newey's solution is detailed in the OP link. The front wing may help, but it's the tunnels' shape and height that make it better.
"Before looking at the specific details of the floor, perhaps the most significant aspect of its design is how its tunnel roof appears to be higher and more arched than those of other floors. Potentially, this should make it intrinsically less stall-prone."
|
|