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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Dec 7, 2021 18:46:58 GMT -8
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Dec 7, 2021 19:11:47 GMT -8
^Wonderful, whatever get this year over fastest.
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jfme
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Post by jfme on Dec 7, 2021 19:58:27 GMT -8
The stewards will guide Hamilton to the championship in Abu Dhabi. Not that I would ever accuse F1 of a bias, but the lighting used in this tweet does seem a tad suspect. Bias? One driver waves good bye while the other holds his arm up. This could not get anymore comical.
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Post by hairyscotsman on Dec 7, 2021 21:06:31 GMT -8
Yep, and hopefully the FIA gets/gives some clarity on all of this driving people off the track bullshit. It's very bad for the sport. Just watched 'Schumacher' on Netflix - driving people off track is nothing new - very Sennaesque, as well as a number of other drivers. It's not new, but it's gotten much more common.
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Post by mmi16 on Dec 8, 2021 5:51:49 GMT -8
Just watched 'Schumacher' on Netflix - driving people off track is nothing new - very Sennaesque, as well as a number of other drivers. It's not new, but it's gotten much more common. When you have legendary leaders of the sport Senna, Earnhardt etc. win and be acclaimed for using questionable techniques to win, what else do you expect young drivers that venerate them to do? For my two cents - Senna and Earnhardt and their styles of driving have done more to damage racing than to advance it.
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Dec 8, 2021 6:06:45 GMT -8
When you have legendary leaders of the sport Senna, Earnhardt etc. win and be acclaimed for using questionable techniques to win, what else do you expect young drivers that venerate them to do? For my two cents - Senna and Earnhardt and their styles of driving have done more to damage racing than to advance it. I agree.
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Post by pushtopass on Dec 8, 2021 6:37:19 GMT -8
Perhaps you missed my point, the Instagram was also the F1 account. So similarly, "by F1 themselves" What F1 Instagram post are you referring to? This one. It was in their "stories" with both side by side but in the regular post it is a swipe. Sheesh, do I have to EVERYTHING for you?? http://instagram.com/p/CXLao-FNX3Z
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Dec 8, 2021 7:02:56 GMT -8
What F1 Instagram post are you referring to? This one. It was in their "stories" with both side by side but in the regular post it is a swipe. Sheesh, do I have to EVERYTHING for you?? http://instagr.am/p/CXLao-FNX3Z You didn't have to explain it to me I just wanted to see the Instagram post you were referencing. I tried looking for it myself but there were so many posts I didn't know which one it was. You sure are touchy.
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Post by hairyscotsman on Dec 8, 2021 9:25:44 GMT -8
It's not new, but it's gotten much more common. When you have legendary leaders of the sport Senna, Earnhardt etc. win and be acclaimed for using questionable techniques to win, what else do you expect young drivers that venerate them to do? For my two cents - Senna and Earnhardt and their styles of driving have done more to damage racing than to advance it.Oh, absolutely. I've been saying similar things for years. And the drivers' tendency to emulate these guys is all the more reason the FIA needs to establish, or re-establish, good, consistent driving standards backed by meaningful consequences for infractions.
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Post by truenorth on Dec 8, 2021 9:37:58 GMT -8
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Post by hairyscotsman on Dec 8, 2021 11:28:16 GMT -8
Toto Wolff: "I don’t think the championship has deserved a result that’s influenced by a collision".
OK Toto, then let's throw out Lewis's P1 & P2 points from GB & Hungary, and Max's P9 from Hungary. I wonder how the WDC looks then?
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jfme
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Post by jfme on Dec 8, 2021 11:57:03 GMT -8
Toto Wolff: "I don’t think the championship has deserved a result that’s influenced by a collision". OK Toto, then let's throw out Lewis's P1 & P2 points from GB & Hungary, and Max's P9 from Hungary. I wonder how the WDC looks then? Toto counted his chickens and put the MB PR mask on
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Post by pushtopass on Dec 8, 2021 12:07:07 GMT -8
Toto Wolff: "I don’t think the championship has deserved a result that’s influenced by a collision". OK Toto, then let's throw out Lewis's P1 & P2 points from GB & Hungary, and Max's P9 from Hungary. I wonder how the WDC looks then? Don't forget Monza points, too
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jfme
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Posts: 576
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Post by jfme on Dec 8, 2021 12:52:41 GMT -8
Yep, and hopefully the FIA gets/gives some clarity on all of this driving people off the track bullshit. It's very bad for the sport. Just watched 'Schumacher' on Netflix - driving people off track is nothing new - very Sennaesque, as well as a number of other drivers. I have zero problem with running people off the track. I would be perfectly ok with only giving penalties if there is a collision. No harm, no foul. The problem is the subjectivity leading to bias we have seen this season. If Lulu pushes others off track it is exciting and shows "sennaesque" character showing how truly the goat he is. If Alonso pushes others off track, well he is the whinny, cheater, toxic Spaniard and such insolence must be penalized. If Max does it, he is a crash kid and must be penalized for his insolence as well. I think this is just a reflection of the British bias we see on TV every race weekend. And it is infuriating.
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Post by pushtopass on Dec 8, 2021 13:45:40 GMT -8
Just watched 'Schumacher' on Netflix - driving people off track is nothing new - very Sennaesque, as well as a number of other drivers. I have zero problem with running people off the track. I would be perfectly ok with only giving penalties if there is a collision. No harm, no foul. The problem is the subjectivity leading to bias we have seen this season. If Lulu pushes others off track it is exciting and shows "sennaesque" character showing how truly the goat he is. If Alonso pushes others off track, well he is the whinny, cheater, toxic Spaniard and such insolence must be penalized. If Max does it, he is a crash kid and must be penalized for his insolence as well. I think this is just a reflection of the British bias we see on TV every race weekend. And it is infuriating. As I keep repeating, apparently no one hears, is that you are listening to British TV so to expect no British bias is silly. If you listen to Dutch TV then Max can do no wrong and Lewis is the devil. If you listen to Spanish TV then Alonso and Sainz are heroes. But when Alonso pushed Giovanazzi wide he did so because he couldn't make the corner. He dive-bombed it. He was behind going into the corner. That is different than having a driver on your outside rear corner and going out to the apex. Neither are great, but the first instance is to try to GAIN a position while out of control, and the other is a deliberate move to keep a position while IN control. And that is why Max had to give the position back as well; he went into the corner too hot and was out of control, off the track, shoving Lewis and gaining position. Personally whether there is contact or not to me is not the thing. I mean, if the person backs out of a clearly established position because the other person is forcing them to do so or crash, then that is bad. Like Lewis forcing Button (?) towards the pit wall. The fact that Button backed out and didn't crash does not make that okay. No harm no foul? I disagree.
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Post by wayfast on Dec 8, 2021 14:05:42 GMT -8
At this point I hope Max parks Lewis in turn 1 on the first lap so we can get the championship out of the way and go about the race.
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Dec 8, 2021 14:31:27 GMT -8
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jfme
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Posts: 576
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Post by jfme on Dec 8, 2021 16:42:44 GMT -8
I have zero problem with running people off the track. I would be perfectly ok with only giving penalties if there is a collision. No harm, no foul. The problem is the subjectivity leading to bias we have seen this season. If Lulu pushes others off track it is exciting and shows "sennaesque" character showing how truly the goat he is. If Alonso pushes others off track, well he is the whinny, cheater, toxic Spaniard and such insolence must be penalized. If Max does it, he is a crash kid and must be penalized for his insolence as well. I think this is just a reflection of the British bias we see on TV every race weekend. And it is infuriating. As I keep repeating, apparently no one hears, is that you are listening to British TV so to expect no British bias is silly. If you listen to Dutch TV then Max can do no wrong and Lewis is the devil. If you listen to Spanish TV then Alonso and Sainz are heroes. But when Alonso pushed Giovanazzi wide he did so because he couldn't make the corner. He dive-bombed it. He was behind going into the corner. That is different than having a driver on your outside rear corner and going out to the apex. Neither are great, but the first instance is to try to GAIN a position while out of control, and the other is a deliberate move to keep a position while IN control. And that is why Max had to give the position back as well; he went into the corner too hot and was out of control, off the track, shoving Lewis and gaining position. Personally whether there is contact or not to me is not the thing. I mean, if the person backs out of a clearly established position because the other person is forcing them to do so or crash, then that is bad. Like Lewis forcing Button (?) towards the pit wall. The fact that Button backed out and didn't crash does not make that okay. No harm no foul? I disagree. My point is no slow drivers can run faster drivers off the road. Its physics, so let the ones who can RACE. The faster driver will eventually pass. Now in my opinion causing a collision that takes other driver out should be penalized with disqualification. A 10 second penalty is an utter joke. We will have to agree to disagree
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Post by kingfisher on Dec 8, 2021 23:57:25 GMT -8
The blame for the initiation of ruthless unsportsmanlike driving behavior can be laid squarely at the feet of Jean-Marie Balestre, FISA President from 1979 - 1991.
It was during his reign at the helm that I first saw Senna running Piquet off track at Rio De Janeiro in 1986 (I believe). I remember thinking what a blatant and unsportsmanlike thing to do. I was sure he'd be black-flagged and sanctioned for it, but I don't remember anything coming of it. Senna continued this reckless behavior from time to time throughout his career and I thought that Balestre should have DQ'ed him from F1 altogether. The fact that he didn't sanction him from the outset set a dangerous precedent that had it's consequences as seasons progressed with younger drivers coming into the sport, some of which patterned behavior after Senna's aggressive driving style.
Incidentally it was following the Senna/Prost collision at Suzuka in 1989 that Balestre determined Senna’s disqualification, suspension, and fine with the intent to revoke Senna's Superlicense. This led to the very public falling out between him and Senna with Aryton tearfully threatening to quit F1 altogether. However Senna was reinstated for the 1990 F1 season, and it is commonly and infamously known that Senna deliberately took Prost out at the very first turn at Suzuka, terminating Prost's chances to win the drivers title for Ferrari since his split and departure from McLaren, which Senna was still driving for. Just 7 years later, Michael Schumacher was disqualified from the 1997 Championship (losing all points for the season) when he was vying for the title with Jacques Villeneuve at the final round in Jerez, Spain, when he intentionally turned in to Villeneuve's Williams. Jacques went on to win the race and the title.
Besides not sanctioning Senna from the outset because of his dangerous and unsportsmanlike driving at times, it became painfully apparent with the advent of increasingly better engineered and constructed cars, that incidents or accidents that would have proved fatal mere years before, now engendered an artificially manipulated sense of immortality. It also, ironically and tragically portended the unforeseen death of Senna himself in 1994 at Iola.
It was essentially in the early career of the man that the proverbial genie was allowed to escape unchecked from the bottle, which by de facto has been allowed to continue unabated without meaningful sanction through today.
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Post by Placid on Dec 9, 2021 3:50:54 GMT -8
He will have to shed some tears on that freezer-like eyes somehow. No doubt Kimi will be missed in the F1 paddock. But on the other hand, will he come back for a 1-off at Indy? I want to see it happen watching the "F1 Iceman" go up against 32 cars.
KIITOS MUISTOISTA, KIMI!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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