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Post by kingfisher on Nov 8, 2021 22:58:37 GMT -8
Bottas did as told. Get off the line slow enough to have Lulu catch up. Problem was Max was fast off the line and Riccardo clipped him. Hamilton better grabs from his bootstraps and consistenly outpeform his teammate by a juicy margin, like Max has been doing throghout the season. Sending Bottas to the back with a new engine does not cut it anymore. Seriously? It is well known that with such a long run down the straight that the cars in the second row, particularly the one on the clean line in third, have a distinct advantage down the straight. Bottas could have either forced him a bit wider or at least hit the brakes after Max. |
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Post by pushtopass on Nov 9, 2021 5:14:31 GMT -8
Bottas was letting Hamilton take the position. Likely the plan all along. Wolff throwing Bottas under the bus was rather unsporting. As Perez did with Max in Texas. It's the role of the #2 driver. |
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Post by overboost on Nov 9, 2021 16:15:28 GMT -8
Yes it is.
But for Wolff to then throw Bottas under the but for supposedly not covering the outside line and placing blame on him for Max getting ahead of Lewis is just uncalled for.
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Post by mmi16 on Nov 9, 2021 16:23:52 GMT -8
Yes it is. But for Wolff to then throw Bottas under the but for supposedly not covering the outside line and placing blame on him for Max getting ahead of Lewis is just uncalled for. The only pitch Toto can throw is under the bus. |
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Nov 10, 2021 2:10:04 GMT -8
The battle for fastest lap: How Bottas managed to deny Verstappen – and how the Dutchman tried to stop himMax Verstappen cruised to a relatively comfortable victory in Mexico City on Sunday, but the Dutchman didn't quite have it all his own way as Valtteri Bottas managed to set the fastest lap at the very end of the race, thus depriving Verstappen of the extra point. But even that wasn't as straightforward as simply pitting Bottas for fresh tyres and sending him back out. Here's how Mark Hughes explained it in his Monday Morning Debrief piece: "Bottas’ role after he’d not been able to make much progress through the pack, stuck behind Ricciardo for much of the way, was to deprive Verstappen of the race’s fastest lap and the point that goes with it. Bottas, being outside the top 10, would not be eligible for the point, but it would still deny Verstappen. "He was brought in for his one remaining set of fresh soft tyres on Lap 66. He rejoined a lap down, just ahead of Verstappen and was obliged to let the Red Bull past. Verstappen clearly understood the implication of what Bottas was attempting to do and on the following lap backed off by 3s, baulking the Mercedes and preventing it doing a quick lap. More, and video @ www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.the-battle-for-fastest-lap-how-bottas-managed-to-deny-verstappen-and-how-the.5yKJcDQcpO4Yl8yjwnPMHW.html
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Post by pushtopass on Nov 10, 2021 4:14:33 GMT -8
Yes it is. But for Wolff to then throw Bottas under the but for supposedly not covering the outside line and placing blame on him for Max getting ahead of Lewis is just uncalled for. I guess I see it as fairly normal. Like Horner talking about how Checo screwing up qualifying is damaging their strategies in other races. They pay these drivers a shitload of money and leaving the clean side of the track open and then getting outbraked into turn 1 without so much as an attempt to prevent any of it is worthy of criticism. Now, I happen to think it is silly because they still need Bottas and could probably coddle him a bit for another couple of races. But Toto did not lie; Bottas did NOT cover the outside line. Note that Checo had similar advantages to Max at the start but did not get by Lewis. |
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Post by mikey on Nov 10, 2021 5:12:31 GMT -8
Yes it is. But for Wolff to then throw Bottas under the but for supposedly not covering the outside line and placing blame on him for Max getting ahead of Lewis is just uncalled for. I guess I see it as fairly normal. Like Horner talking about how Checo screwing up qualifying is damaging their strategies in other races. They pay these drivers a shitload of money and leaving the clean side of the track open and then getting outbraked into turn 1 without so much as an attempt to prevent any of it is worthy of criticism. Now, I happen to think it is silly because they still need Bottas and could probably coddle him a bit for another couple of races. But Toto did not lie; Bottas did NOT cover the outside line. Note that Checo had similar advantages to Max at the start but did not get by Lewis. I'm not sure Bottas even thought about someone using the inside line at that point and was trying to keep others from passing him so he was not to far behind Lulu to give the Team lots of strategy choices. |
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Post by mmi16 on Nov 10, 2021 7:04:15 GMT -8
I guess I see it as fairly normal. Like Horner talking about how Checo screwing up qualifying is damaging their strategies in other races. They pay these drivers a shitload of money and leaving the clean side of the track open and then getting outbraked into turn 1 without so much as an attempt to prevent any of it is worthy of criticism. Now, I happen to think it is silly because they still need Bottas and could probably coddle him a bit for another couple of races. But Toto did not lie; Bottas did NOT cover the outside line. Note that Checo had similar advantages to Max at the start but did not get by Lewis. I'm not sure Bottas even thought about someone using the inside line at that point and was trying to keep others from passing him so he was not to far behind Lulu to give the Team lots of strategy choices. To paraphrase an epic quote from another sport - 'That is why the run the races.' |
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Post by pushtopass on Nov 10, 2021 9:33:04 GMT -8
I can criticize Bottas for losing the position so easily, but this is just stupid. Max is an awesome driver and MADE this work. I am sure there is always a bit of guesswork in such a move, but he trusted himself to manage it and did so. www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-max-verstappen-guessing/ |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Nov 10, 2021 9:37:58 GMT -8
Bottas was letting Hamilton take the position. Likely the plan all along. Wolff throwing Bottas under the bus was rather unsporting. As Perez did with Max in Texas. It's the role of the #2 driver. Bottas has an equal #1 contract at Merc and at the start of that race STILL had a chance at the title, he wasn't obligated to do squat for Hamilton. |
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Post by pushtopass on Nov 10, 2021 9:59:07 GMT -8
As Perez did with Max in Texas. It's the role of the #2 driver. Bottas has an equal #1 contract at Merc and at the start of that race STILL had a chance at the title, he wasn't obligated to do squat for Hamilton. No, but for the team he needs to cover off Max. Remember, it's a team sport. |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Nov 10, 2021 11:04:14 GMT -8
Bottas has an equal #1 contract at Merc and at the start of that race STILL had a chance at the title, he wasn't obligated to do squat for Hamilton. No, but for the team he needs to cover off Max. Remember, it's a team sport. That was Hamilton's responsibility as well. |
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Post by pushtopass on Nov 10, 2021 11:20:49 GMT -8
No, but for the team he needs to cover off Max. Remember, it's a team sport. That was Hamilton's responsibility as well. Lewis did everything possible. He kept Checo and others behind him. He outbraked Bottas despite being on the dirtiest part of the track. You can see from Checo's onboards that he had the speed to pass but Lewis kept him blocked off. |
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Post by mikey on Nov 10, 2021 14:23:28 GMT -8
That was Hamilton's responsibility as well. Lewis did everything possible. He kept Checo and others behind him. He outbraked Bottas despite being on the dirtiest part of the track. You can see from Checo's onboards that he had the speed to pass but Lewis kept him blocked off. Remember too Bottas complained during practice that his brakes were grabbing, maybe Merc didn't fix then the right way and during the warm up lap he didn't try then enough, it's not like someone can go full speed and slam on the brakes at the last quarter second during the warm up lap. |
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Post by pushtopass on Nov 10, 2021 16:12:28 GMT -8
Lewis did everything possible. He kept Checo and others behind him. He outbraked Bottas despite being on the dirtiest part of the track. You can see from Checo's onboards that he had the speed to pass but Lewis kept him blocked off. Remember too Bottas complained during practice that his brakes were grabbing, maybe Merc didn't fix then the right way and during the warm up lap he didn't try then enough, it's not like someone can go full speed and slam on the brakes at the last quarter second during the warm up lap. Actually this is what puzzled me about the discussion around Max "practicing" that late-braking move on his installation lap. No way was he going as fast as he was at the start. I guess these people can reverse engineer their braking point to sort out what they need to do at higher speed. |
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Post by overboost on Nov 10, 2021 17:07:13 GMT -8
That was Hamilton's responsibility as well. Lewis did everything possible. He kept Checo and others behind him. He outbraked Bottas despite being on the dirtiest part of the track. You can see from Checo's onboards that he had the speed to pass but Lewis kept him blocked off. Lewis didn't do everything. He let his #2 take pole position from him. |
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Nov 10, 2021 18:14:50 GMT -8
That was Hamilton's responsibility as well. Lewis did everything possible. He kept Checo and others behind him. He outbraked Bottas despite being on the dirtiest part of the track. You can see from Checo's onboards that he had the speed to pass but Lewis kept him blocked off. Then how did Perez end up BEHIND Bottas at the turn in? |
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Post by Boomer on Nov 10, 2021 19:30:59 GMT -8
Lewis did everything possible. He kept Checo and others behind him. He outbraked Bottas despite being on the dirtiest part of the track. You can see from Checo's onboards that he had the speed to pass but Lewis kept him blocked off. Then how did Perez end up BEHIND Bottas at the turn in? It was "The Checo Surge"  |
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Post by pushtopass on Nov 11, 2021 5:11:01 GMT -8
Then how did Perez end up BEHIND Bottas at the turn in? It was "The Checo Surge" Just look at the video; Checo couldn't find a way past Lewis so just before turn in he moved to the left to follow Bottas (presumably to get a better line through the corner). Remember, Checo started the race behind Lewis. He didn't get as good of a start as Max, either. |
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Post by Placid on Nov 12, 2021 4:46:16 GMT -8
Perez Jr looks on....  LIL' PEREZ: PAPI!!!!! I NEED TO GO TO THE BATHROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Korean cable TV is lousy. no more NASCAR nor NHRA