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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Nov 30, 2020 16:14:24 GMT -8
It was impressive how it absorbed the energy (noting as it was here how the engine compartment had barely any excess energy and only a couple of tires went very far) but the problem to me is the splitting. What if he'd have gotten just halfway through? I don't think a barrier is doing its job if it is completely penetrated but what do I know. Grosjean was doing 130+ MHP. If he hit something that was complete solid the entire car would have pancaked on top of him. Most likely killing him. Put a safer-barrier there and maybe he is completely consumed by it a fire breaks out and he is trapped. Tire barrier the same. It is all a crap shoot. There are no perfect solutions, only percentages for survival in chaos. Motorsports are dangerous.
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r60man
Full Member
Posts: 1,273
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Post by r60man on Nov 30, 2020 17:08:35 GMT -8
It was impressive how it absorbed the energy (noting as it was here how the engine compartment had barely any excess energy and only a couple of tires went very far) but the problem to me is the splitting. What if he'd have gotten just halfway through? I don't think a barrier is doing its job if it is completely penetrated but what do I know. Grosjean was doing 130+ MHP. If he hit something that was complete solid the entire car would have pancaked on top of him. Most likely killing him. Put a safer-barrier there and maybe he is completely consumed by it a fire breaks out and he is trapped. Tire barrier the same. It is all a crap shoot. There are no perfect solutions, only percentages for survival in chaos. Motorsports are dangerous. Hmmm, sounds familiar, LOL
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Post by Pistola on Nov 30, 2020 17:31:20 GMT -8
If you really want to know what happens in an F1 car when to you hit a solid barrier head or nearly head on refresh yourself with Kubica in Montreal. Even further back look up Dave Purley at Silverstone in 1977 where his car came to a stop in 26" from 108 mph. How he survived when the car was compressed is a miracle that defies logic.
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Post by mmi16 on Nov 30, 2020 19:47:01 GMT -8
It was impressive how it absorbed the energy (noting as it was here how the engine compartment had barely any excess energy and only a couple of tires went very far) but the problem to me is the splitting. What if he'd have gotten just halfway through? I don't think a barrier is doing its job if it is completely penetrated but what do I know. If Armco was manufactured in 4 or 5 foot widths it wouldn't split and still deform to absorb energy. With my Holiday Inn Express engineering degree it looked like the 'failure' was two fold - the nose of the car split the lengths of Armco just short of the post that anchored the Armco and the inertia of the impact split the car at the engine mounting around the post. The survival cell remained intact and thus Grosjean, who fortunately remained conscious was able to extricate himself from the remains of the survival cell and escape to safety. Had he been knocked unconscious it very well could have been a different outcome.
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Post by boiler on Nov 30, 2020 19:54:51 GMT -8
I have always wondered why F1 still uses aramco barriers and why F1 has not adapted the safer-barrier technology used in the US racing series. I am so glad RoGro is OK. This brought back memories of me watching F1 in the 70s and seeing horrific accidents taking the lives of some of my favorite drivers and almost taking the life of Niki Lauda. And the medical car personnel did an amazing job. I thought the medical director would surely hurt himself in saving RoGro. Since when do the euros -- EDIT-- like anything we come up with? They continued to talk shit about the HANS device even after the slew of deaths in Nascar, go to F1 tech and read the dog pile on the aero screen right now most of them have no clue that they are damn near the same thing with the only difference being the screen.... If Americans played any part in the development Europeans basically discard it immediately and try to come up with something 10 times more complicated that works half as well. Look at the debacle when they started running different tire compounds anyone remember the paint marker dot on the sidewall of the Bridgestone's, god forbid they use the red stripe from their sister company.... Hey dude, no need for the derogatory comments - Carlo Carrera
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Post by mmi16 on Nov 30, 2020 19:58:16 GMT -8
I have always wondered why F1 still uses aramco barriers and why F1 has not adapted the safer-barrier technology used in the US racing series. I am so glad RoGro is OK. This brought back memories of me watching F1 in the 70s and seeing horrific accidents taking the lives of some of my favorite drivers and almost taking the life of Niki Lauda. And the medical car personnel did an amazing job. I thought the medical director would surely hurt himself in saving RoGro. Since when do the euro fags like anything we come up with? They continued to talk shit about the HANS device even after the slew of deaths in Nascar, go to F1 tech and read the dog pile on the aero screen right now most of them have no clue that they are damn near the same thing with the only difference being the screen.... If Americans played any part in the development Europeans basically discard it immediately and try to come up with something 10 times more complicated that works half as well. Look at the debacle when they started running different tire compounds anyone remember the paint marker dot on the sidewall of the Bridgestone's, god forbid they use the red stripe from their sister company.... F1 has always been about reinventing the wheel; periodically the rules are changed to FORCE the wheel to be reinvented.
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Post by boiler on Nov 30, 2020 20:01:16 GMT -8
Another thing to consider had the Halo gotten stuck under the barrier he wouldn't have been able to get out, by luck the car was tilted away from the barrier basically offering him a clear path out. That would have been an ironic scenario, the halo saved his head and then trapped him under the barrier.
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Post by boiler on Nov 30, 2020 20:03:56 GMT -8
Since when do the euros like anything we come up with? They continued to talk shit about the HANS device even after the slew of deaths in Nascar, go to F1 tech and read the dog pile on the aero screen right now most of them have no clue that they are damn near the same thing with the only difference being the screen.... If Americans played any part in the development Europeans basically discard it immediately and try to come up with something 10 times more complicated that works half as well. Look at the debacle when they started running different tire compounds anyone remember the paint marker dot on the sidewall of the Bridgestone's, god forbid they use the red stripe from their sister company.... F1 has always been about reinventing the wheel; periodically the rules are changed to FORCE the wheel to be reinvented. I get that but sometimes you have to swallow your pride and use something that has already been proven, anyone remember the Toyota wrecks at Indy. I dont recall the Europeans praising the safer then either.....
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Nov 30, 2020 20:12:30 GMT -8
F1 has always been about reinventing the wheel; periodically the rules are changed to FORCE the wheel to be reinvented. I get that but sometimes you have to swallow your pride and use something that has already been proven, anyone remember the Toyota wrecks at Indy. I dont recall the Europeans praising the safer then either..... I think there has been enough euro bashing for one night.
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Post by mikey on Nov 30, 2020 20:38:53 GMT -8
I have been saying this all along. The barrier "failure" may very well have saved Grosjean's life. Exactly, the way the barrier is designed, in strips, is what saved his life. BUT the question will be if the car never went thru the barrier would the fuel cell have been ruptured or did going thru the barrier and going around the post splitting the car in half rupture the fuel cell, ie no car splitting in half no fire and a much safer accident. We haven't seen a full fuel cell rupture in a long time and we've seen all kinds of accidents including Massa in Monaco, twice.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Dec 1, 2020 2:43:15 GMT -8
If you really want to know what happens in an F1 car when to you hit a solid barrier head or nearly head on refresh yourself with Kubica in Montreal. Even further back look up Dave Purley at Silverstone in 1977 where his car came to a stop in 26" from 108 mph. How he survived when the car was compressed is a miracle that defies logic. Two words. Gordon Smiley.
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Post by overboost on Dec 1, 2020 4:26:57 GMT -8
Another thing to consider had the Halo gotten stuck under the barrier he wouldn't have been able to get out, by luck the car was tilted away from the barrier basically offering him a clear path out. That would have been an ironic scenario, the halo saved his head and then trapped him under the barrier. The armco failure saved him from the halo. The halo saved him from the armco failure.
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Post by olderguysrule on Dec 1, 2020 4:48:58 GMT -8
I have always wondered why F1 still uses aramco barriers and why F1 has not adapted the safer-barrier technology used in the US racing series. I am so glad RoGro is OK. This brought back memories of me watching F1 in the 70s and seeing horrific accidents taking the lives of some of my favorite drivers and almost taking the life of Niki Lauda. And the medical car personnel did an amazing job. I thought the medical director would surely hurt himself in saving RoGro. Since when do the euros -- EDIT-- like anything we come up with? They continued to talk shit about the HANS device even after the slew of deaths in Nascar, go to F1 tech and read the dog pile on the aero screen right now most of them have no clue that they are damn near the same thing with the only difference being the screen.... If Americans played any part in the development Europeans basically discard it immediately and try to come up with something 10 times more complicated that works half as well. Look at the debacle when they started running different tire compounds anyone remember the paint marker dot on the sidewall of the Bridgestone's, god forbid they use the red stripe from their sister company.... Hey dude, no need for the derogatory comments - Carlo Carreraaero screen? :-) if the haas had the indycar aero screen they'd be planning a funeral for rogo this week.
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Post by boomer on Dec 1, 2020 10:50:22 GMT -8
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Post by boomer on Dec 1, 2020 10:56:13 GMT -8
"Armco" crash barrier.Time for a re-think, don't you think?
Note: I've no idea what 'bather' means. A 'typo' of (barrier) perhaps?
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Post by Pistola on Dec 1, 2020 11:35:53 GMT -8
Updated map of Bahrain.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Dec 1, 2020 15:27:02 GMT -8
MEDLAND: A tough night to comprehendI still can’t get my head around it. Every time I see the wreckage of the front half of the Haas sitting in the barrier, I just can’t compute the fact that Romain Grosjean got out alive. And I mean, literally got out alive. He didn’t need dragging out, or physically helping at all to get away. He undid his seatbelts, took off the steering wheel, removed the headrest, and pulled himself free before jumping through flames and over the mangled barrier to the safety of the track and the arms of FIA deputy medical delegate Dr. Ian Roberts. It’s just ridiculously hard to believe. I’m sure like many of you watching, the moment of impact sent a chill through my body. That explosion was just so unusual, and it was initially unclear who was involved. You instantly feared the worst. racer.com/2020/11/30/medland-a-tough-night-to-comprehend/?fbclid=IwAR1bVv52sdBZLoSZuBROpO-q16vVqPq-5ZM84wDmhijyhw1Uz_8q-EJ35Fc
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Post by mikey on Dec 1, 2020 16:10:56 GMT -8
I initially thought we had another death and the race was going to be rescheduled. Then seeing pictures of Dr Roberts reaching out to RoGro who was reaching out from within the flames I knew thankfully the race would resume!! Seeing RoGro land on the Dr's side of the guard rail I knew he was injured but also knew not so badly that he couldn't recover.
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jfme
Full Member
Posts: 576
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Post by jfme on Dec 1, 2020 17:39:58 GMT -8
Grosjean always causing spectacular crashes. Some have arguably changed the outcome of championships for other drivers.
He is damn lucky he survived this. That metal barrier sliced the car like a cheese grater. The monocoque is not supposed to split like that. Escaping the busted survival cell engulfed in flames was nothing short of a miracle
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Post by mmi16 on Dec 1, 2020 20:30:53 GMT -8
Grosjean always causing spectacular crashes. Some have arguably changed the outcome of championships for other drivers. He is damn lucky he survived this. That metal barrier sliced the car like a cheese grater. The monocoque is not supposed to split like that. Escaping the busted survival cell engulfed in flames was nothing short of a miracle Considering how acute his move across the nose of Kvyat was - I am not sure he could have kept it on track even if he didn't clip Kvyat's LF.
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