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Post by Spin on Apr 20, 2019 5:19:12 GMT -8
Well it's not going to happen. That short episode is over. Debating Tony's motives and CART's failure isn't going to go anywhere because they both ultimately failed. CART failed to be a series that rivaled Formula One after a flash in the pan. The IRL failed to be a career professional level for open wheel drivers, they still go to NASCAR. It is what it is and we love it. BTW, is anyone else going to Detroit? "Debating Tony's motives and CART's failure isn't going to go anywhere " yes, correct. So why bring it up in the first place? Because I found it ironic P&G wanted to go back to the same rule (right down to the "25") to prevent faster outsiders from racing. Pot, meet kettle. It was fun on social media, apparently there's a lot of P&G fanboys here.
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Post by montybriscoe on Apr 20, 2019 5:35:37 GMT -8
I agree there are two sides to this issue, but I think the "drama" aspect is a bit overblown in the modern era compared to the fragility of the overall sponsor situation.
🤣Mark Miles doesn't know what tradtion means at Indy. This last row shootout is a joke and it is not bumping. Let's say we get 36 entries. Let's say all six cars battling for 31 thru 33, all run faster than the car that got locked in the day before at 30th. How will they address that? How is it fair that the car locked into 30th is actually the slowest car in the field? Will they just say fuck it and start all 36? I hope they have some sort of contingency plan for that scenario. Also, the fact that DHL was prepared to leave in 2011, unless they were in the field while Arrow was understanding of the situation that Hinch and SPM were in further illustrates that Mark Miles is way out to lunch on this issue. Unless teams have disclosed what their sponsor deals entail to him, then he really has no business making some of these assumptions. Well, Arrow didn't leave....no shit Sherlock. However he does not know if Gainbridge would leave if Veach fails to make the show or if Gallagher would bolt Carlin and Chilton in the same situation. He just doesn't know. Then when two less cars show up for Detroit because their funding got cut off, what will he say then?
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Post by montybriscoe on Apr 20, 2019 5:56:49 GMT -8
Don't be surprised if the fulltime teams don't rally their sponsors to put pressure on Mark Miles.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Apr 20, 2019 7:03:23 GMT -8
"Debating Tony's motives and CART's failure isn't going to go anywhere " yes, correct. So why bring it up in the first place? Because I found it ironic P&G wanted to go back to the same rule (right down to the "25") to prevent faster outsiders from racing. Pot, meet kettle. It was fun on social media, apparently there's a lot of P&G fanboys here. Nope, no fanboi here at all. Just smart enough to realize that one was exclusive, and one inclusive. There's a difference.
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Post by montybriscoe on Apr 20, 2019 8:51:32 GMT -8
Can you name the year of each one of these three Indy 500s?
Mystery Indy 500 #1:
25 of 33 starters were full-time entrants.
16 cars failed to make the show. 3 were fulltime entrants.
Name the year and the full-time entrants that failed to make the race.
Mystery Indy 500 #2:
24 of 33 starters were full-time entrants.
3 cars failed to qualify based on speed (2 bumped, 1 too slow).
9 cars, all one-offs, never posted a time (waved off or never attempted).
Name the year and three drivers who failed to post fast enough times to make the field.
Mystery Indy 500 #3:
16 rookies in 33 car field. One true one-off. One car bumped. One car didn't post fast enough speed. One car never made an attempt. Two cars crashed in practice and ran no more.
Name the year, the true one-off team and driver, and the driver who was bumped.
After you answer these questions, ask yourself if locking in entrants to the 500 is really going to cause the world to end in open wheel as we know it now
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Post by Spin on Apr 20, 2019 20:49:48 GMT -8
Because I found it ironic P&G wanted to go back to the same rule (right down to the "25") to prevent faster outsiders from racing. Pot, meet kettle. It was fun on social media, apparently there's a lot of P&G fanboys here. Nope, no fanboi here at all. Just smart enough to realize that one was exclusive, and one inclusive. There's a difference. In CART's eyes The Indianapolis 500 was never sanctioned by CART. The World of Outlaws do not sanction the Knoxville Nationals. It's on their schedule and they give points to members for it, but Knoxville dictates how and when you run. Making teams go somewhere else on those dates would be suicide. The series is not bigger than the event. If you're a formula racing fan, a road racer at heart, you're going to see it one way. If you're a lifelong oval track fan, you're going to see IndyCar for what it was for 70 years. It's all about perspective.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Apr 21, 2019 2:00:36 GMT -8
Nope, no fanboi here at all. Just smart enough to realize that one was exclusive, and one inclusive. There's a difference. In CART's eyes The Indianapolis 500 was never sanctioned by CART. The World of Outlaws do not sanction the Knoxville Nationals. It's on their schedule and they give points to members for it, but Knoxville dictates how and when you run. Making teams go somewhere else on those dates would be suicide. The series is not bigger than the event. If you're a formula racing fan, a road racer at heart, you're going to see it one way. If you're a lifelong oval track fan, you're going to see IndyCar for what it was for 70 years. It's all about perspective. Yep. And my perspective starts with Fuck Tony George, and ends there. That 70 years you referred to was show up with a car within the rules, qualify, race. No quarter given or expected. Then little Tony had to have his say. The series, and the 500, were both damn lucky they survived him and may never approach the success they had enjoyed before him again, due to him and him alone, IMO. (Except for the poor poor owners who couldn't beat P&G among others. I'm looking at you, AJ. Weren't you the 1st IRL owner to hire a foreign driver, or do I just still hate you for blaming your crew on TV for a fouled spark plug when you were pissed after dropping out of a 500?).
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Post by mmi16 on Apr 21, 2019 5:09:22 GMT -8
In CART's eyes The Indianapolis 500 was never sanctioned by CART. The World of Outlaws do not sanction the Knoxville Nationals. It's on their schedule and they give points to members for it, but Knoxville dictates how and when you run. Making teams go somewhere else on those dates would be suicide. The series is not bigger than the event. If you're a formula racing fan, a road racer at heart, you're going to see it one way. If you're a lifelong oval track fan, you're going to see IndyCar for what it was for 70 years. It's all about perspective. Yep. And my perspective starts with Fuck Tony George, and ends there. That 70 years you referred to was show up with a car within the rules, qualify, race. No quarter given or expected. Then little Tony had to have his say. The series, and the 500, were both damn lucky they survived him and may never approach the success they had enjoyed before him again, due to him and him alone, IMO. (Except for the poor poor owners who couldn't beat P&G among others. I'm looking at you, AJ. Weren't you the 1st IRL owner to hire a foreign driver, or do I just still hate you for blaming your crew on TV for a fouled spark plug when you were pissed after dropping out of a 500?). I wish all motorsports would go back to 'broad brush' rule books - displacement, type of induction, minimum weight - go racing! Those days are gone and will never return.
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Post by Spin on Apr 21, 2019 7:12:07 GMT -8
That 70 years you referred to was show up with a car within the rules, qualify, race. No quarter given or expected And P&G want to change that. If two are bad, so is the third. My perspective, screw the charters at Daytona. Screw the 25 and 8 rule at Indy. If John Force or Steve Kinser or Scott Bloomquist can go home on Saturday at their biggest events, so can these guys. Just like Bobby Rahal and all three Penske teams in the 90's. You want to prevent another Hinch episode like last year (my favorite driver BTW)? Change the new dumbass qualifying rules.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Apr 21, 2019 7:22:01 GMT -8
That 70 years you referred to was show up with a car within the rules, qualify, race. No quarter given or expected And P&G want to change that. If two are bad, so is the third. My perspective, screw the charters at Daytona. Screw the 25 and 8 rule at Indy. If John Force or Steve Kinser or Scott Bloomquist can go home on Saturday at their biggest events, so can these guys. Just like Bobby Rahal and all three Penske teams in the 90's. You want to prevent another Hinch episode like last year (my favorite driver BTW)? Change the new dumbass qualifying rules. I'd prefer going back to the old rules, if you pass inspection, qualify, if you qualify to race, race. However, the only thing that can completely kill the series is loss of sponsorships. Favoring the full timers is one way to avoid that. I don't like it but this is not 1994 either.
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Post by Buck on Apr 23, 2019 10:58:56 GMT -8
(Showing the head protection device in front of the cockpit)
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Post by Pistola on Apr 23, 2019 15:16:00 GMT -8
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Post by Buck on Apr 23, 2019 17:24:20 GMT -8
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Post by Buck on Apr 23, 2019 17:25:19 GMT -8
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Post by Buck on Apr 23, 2019 17:28:04 GMT -8
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Post by Buck on Apr 24, 2019 12:57:50 GMT -8
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Post by montybriscoe on Apr 24, 2019 15:37:55 GMT -8
That 70 years you referred to was show up with a car within the rules, qualify, race. No quarter given or expected And P&G want to change that. If two are bad, so is the third. My perspective, screw the charters at Daytona. Screw the 25 and 8 rule at Indy. If John Force or Steve Kinser or Scott Bloomquist can go home on Saturday at their biggest events, so can these guys. Just like Bobby Rahal and all three Penske teams in the 90's. You want to prevent another Hinch episode like last year (my favorite driver BTW)? Change the new dumbass qualifying rules. Actually, something that I haven't heard fans, enraged and disgusted about guaranteeing spots at Indy, even mention or acknowledge is this: Without additional entries, for this year's Indy 500, by fulltime teams, there would be only 29 cars for 33 spots. Yes, it is true. Seven full-time teams are running one additional car for the 500. So, if Indy doesn't want to lock in fulltime entries, so be it. However, those same fulltime teams can tell IMS, we just won't field an extra car next year. You (IMS) can figure out how you want to fill your field. You can either lock us in, subsidize our extra cars just like in the TG/IRL era, or you can just tell the world that 33 is just a number! IMS needs to understand who has been propping up who recently.
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Post by Buck on Apr 24, 2019 16:46:39 GMT -8
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Post by Buck on Apr 24, 2019 16:58:45 GMT -8
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Post by montybriscoe on Apr 24, 2019 17:23:12 GMT -8
Listened to Marshal Pruett's Racer podcast for this week. He says, according to what he heard from people, is that at COTA, owners met with Indy officials to more or less let them know that they were not on board with these new qualifying procedures for the 500. Owners said that, under this new format, margin of error is gonna be super small this year. If you have any kind of adversity on Saturday, you are gonna be in the last row shootout on Sunday. Owners have said that, essentially, they have one day to qualify, one guaranteed attempt. However, every car gets one attempt on Saturday and once that is fulfilled cars can go out and make as many attempts as they want. What happens though, circumstances dictate you get only one attempt. Say your car develops an electronic glitch. You were plenty fast but now you are dead in the water. Then it rains and ends the first day with the top 30 locked in. Here you are, one of the 3 or 4 fastest cars all week and now you are stuck in the last row shootout. There you get only one attempt on Sunday, no margin of error. Then on Sunday, this driver has something beyond his control go wrong, running over something, a tire go down and now he is out. In the conversation for the pole Saturday morning, he is out of the Indy 500. Owners need more of a security blanket than that. They might say we used to have two weekends to qualify so if we couldn't overcome adversity after four days of qualifying, we don't deserve to be in. We had plenty of chances to get in. Not under this format. One guaranteed chance on Saturday, that is all.
Marshal also says that he doesn't see locked in positions ever happening at Indy. The owners just want the qualifying procedures changed.
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