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Post by mmi16 on Jul 17, 2020 6:34:58 GMT -8
Vettel swims to the top of FP2.
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Post by kidrybot on Jul 17, 2020 14:38:49 GMT -8
It rained and I was stuck at work
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Post by Sabrina81 on Jul 17, 2020 16:25:46 GMT -8
Is it going to rain the rest of the weekend?
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Jul 17, 2020 16:41:41 GMT -8
Possibility of heavy thunderstorms anytime but not steady rain. Could be fun.
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Post by Pistola on Jul 17, 2020 16:51:21 GMT -8
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Jul 17, 2020 17:16:19 GMT -8
I still think so long as RP didn't receive or steal any CAD drawings, molds or actual brake ducts directly from MB they are free and clear.
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Post by Pistola on Jul 17, 2020 17:39:06 GMT -8
So do I. The Renault spokesman for the protest is Marcin Budkowski who got knickers twisted when he left his technical position with the FIA to join Renault.
Somehow he knew enough about the FIA visit to spot that the brake ducts had never been inspected.
I'd like to save the idea of uniqueness in F1 but that's been pretty much regulated out by the FIA and now along with Liberty with the new regulations. Even if you don't copy it's a copy.
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Post by hairyscotsman on Jul 18, 2020 3:59:07 GMT -8
So, whose motorhome is the huge grey one? Wow ...
I have an idea.
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Post by hairyscotsman on Jul 18, 2020 4:00:16 GMT -8
Finally getting to watch FP2 just now. Ted's interview with Renault's Marcin Budkowski was very telling. As some of you have mentioned, it seems the main thrust of Renault's protest of RP is based on the interior of the brake duct...i.e. that photos won't reveal the interior design of the brake duct, and that if RP's brake duct is the same on the inside as the Merc 2019 brake duct, then they had help with that design.
At the end of the interview, he said something to the effect that if the internals were the same, that he would think the FIA would then go ahead and inspect the entire car. In other words, I don't think he's saying identical internals would constitute proof so much as it would constitute just cause for investigating the car further.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Jul 18, 2020 4:14:34 GMT -8
Finally getting to watch FP2 just now. Ted's interview with Renault's Marcin Budkowski was very telling. As some of you have mentioned, it seems the main thrust of Renault's protest of RP is based on the interior of the brake duct...i.e. that photos won't reveal the interior design of the brake duct, and that if RP's brake duct is the same on the inside as the Merc 2019 brake duct, then they had help with that design. At the end of the interview, he said something to the effect that if the internals were the same, that he would think the FIA would then go ahead and inspect the entire car. In other words, I don't think he's saying identical internals would constitute proof so much as it would constitute just cause for investigating the car further. I posted this same response on the F1 News thread ...
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Post by montybriscoe on Jul 18, 2020 6:01:38 GMT -8
Yawn...Mercedes sweep the first two rows. Black Mercedes lock up front row and the pink Mercedes buttons up row 2.
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jmjgt
Member
Posts: 3,311
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Post by jmjgt on Jul 18, 2020 15:20:29 GMT -8
I still think so long as RP didn't receive or steal any CAD drawings, molds or actual brake ducts directly from MB they are free and clear. If that was the sole focus of the investigation i think the whole thing would be wrapped up quick. But i think the onus may turn quickly if the FIA concludes the internals are identical. The RP would have to come up with the photo evidence they used to copy the ducts in such detail, as well as the files they used to do it because if they're forming their defense that the part was already cleared the revaluation that the inspectors DID'NT even look at them is a game changer. To put a finer point on this issue it would be easy for one team to give another one everything they'd need to duplicate a part, including photos ostensibly taken by the team supposedly coping the parts. All cad files and workups can be dummied up to look like the receiving team did all of the work themselves to satisfy the technical requirements. I don't think that's the case in this situation given the timing of the parts becoming unlisted but the FIA may want to retain some good cyber investigators in the future.
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Post by mikey on Jul 18, 2020 16:12:17 GMT -8
I think there'd have to be some compensation for giving someone your cad drawings AND dummy them so they would be hard for the casusal observer to not know they came from you, that's kind of stretching the 'cheating' allegation. I would guess RP got something from Mercedes besides just the power train and during the process got at least some of the brake drum details and then being smart people would have modified it slightly to fit there own setup. For instance Mercedes now uses the in/out steering wheel movement to warm up their front tires so the brake ducting wouldn't need as much airflow to keep them warm.
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Post by snuffmoviestar on Jul 18, 2020 17:57:56 GMT -8
I still think so long as RP didn't receive or steal any CAD drawings, molds or actual brake ducts directly from MB they are free and clear. They received actual brake ducts from Mercedes last season legally. All they had to do was cut one open and look at the internal design. If they "designed" their own from what they saw, they're breaching the regulations.
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Post by olderguysrule on Jul 19, 2020 2:14:28 GMT -8
I still think so long as RP didn't receive or steal any CAD drawings, molds or actual brake ducts directly from MB they are free and clear. They received actual brake ducts from Mercedes last season legally. All they had to do was cut one open and look at the internal design. If they "designed" their own from what they saw, they're breaching the regulations. they wouldn't even have to cut one. since they had the 2019 brake ducts all last season, along with however many other parts, all they'd have to do is run em thru a ct scan. Ya get a 20 something computer nerd to take the ct data, run it thru autocad and then build one. prolly 3d print one first to see if it looks right. they could also run it on a Mitutoyo CV3000. Ya get all the data on that machine to reverse engineer the part. The Merc people would never know. there a good story about the Mitutoyo CV3000. in the early 2k's it was restricted technology. some countries like north korea couldn't purchase it. so mitutoyo got around that be selling em to whatever country which then sent en to north korea. they were busted and the person responsible at mitutoyo, maybe the president of mitutoyo did real jail time
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Jul 19, 2020 3:39:53 GMT -8
Looks wet in Hungary!!!
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Jul 19, 2020 4:49:03 GMT -8
MAX CRASHES ON THE RECON LAP TO THE GRID! BREAKS THE LF STEERING AND FRONT WING!
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Jul 19, 2020 4:55:59 GMT -8
... All they had to do was cut one open and look at the internal design. If they "designed" their own from what they saw, they're breaching the regulations. I'm not sure they would need to cut one open or if that is illegal.
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Post by RRZX14 on Jul 19, 2020 4:57:25 GMT -8
MAX CRASHES ON THE RECON LAP TO THE GRID! BREAKS THE LF STEERING AND FRONT WING! This should be interesting.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Jul 19, 2020 4:58:38 GMT -8
Max is one of my #1s in PFRL. The whiskey flows early today
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