David Emmett says the previous version of this interview was translated with AI. Apparently, this version was translated by a real person. You may wish to see if it's different.
HRC Boss Koji Watanabe On How To Turn Honda's MotoGP Project Around And Why They Will Never Pull Out Of MotoGP
By Akira Nishimura | Mon, 14/08/2023
On the first weekend of August, the Suzuka 8 Hours Race was held at Suzuka Circuit in Mie Prefecture, within an hour's drive from Nagoya, the third biggest city in Japan. This year saw the 44th edition, and Honda is the most successful manufacturer in its history: 29 victories.
This number of victories is overwhelming. Since the Suzuka 8 Hours is regarded as one of the most important races for Honda, a string HRC (Honda Racing Corporation) top management came to Suzuka one after another, with HRC President Koji Watanabe also arriving at the racetrack on Saturday morning. In Sunday’s race, their factory team, Team HRC with Japan Post, dominated all through the eight hours and achieved victory for the second year in a row. It was such a beautiful summer night, and everything went silky smooth for them in the 8 Hours race.
Everything is the complete opposite in MotoGP, however. In the premier world championship for motorcycle racing, Honda has been suffering something they have never experienced before.
As of Round 9, the British GP, Honda has taken only one podium from twenty seven opportunities. In the riders’ standings, the highest place for any of Honda's four riders is 14th, and in the manufacturers' championship, Honda lies in 4th place, with their accumulated points less than one third of Ducati's. In the team standings, Honda’s factory squad Repsol Honda Team is placed the lowest of all, 11th. This must be the most critical situation in their racing history.
Therefore, on Saturday afternoon, almost twenty-four hours before the race start in Suzuka, we conducted a one-on-one interview with the HRC president Koji Watanabe, probably the very first opportunity in the world for MotoGP-related media. We asked the top executive who manages all of their racing activities in the company without any reservations and straight to the point; how can they get out of this miserable situation? And what is the roadmap to resurrection and getting back the glory again?
Watanabe-san became the president of HRC on April 1st, 2022. That was the moment that HRC, which used to be the specialized motorcycle racing organization, integrated Formula One and other four-wheel racing activities to become the “new” HRC to manage all the racing activities for Honda. In the inaugural speech when he was appointed the president, Watanabe-san announced four concepts of the new HRC;
Elevating the Honda brand further through HRC’s motorsports activities.
Continuing commitment to carbon neutrality for sustainable motorsports.
Providing opportunities and expanding the environment for motorsports to enjoy racing more.
Contributing to Honda's motorcycle and automobile business through motorsports activities.
We started the question firstly to ask whether these four concepts were proceeding as they had originally planned.
KW: Basically, we are on schedule. There are some areas where we have to probe carefully to figure out what to do and how to do, so everything cannot be done immediately. However, we did anticipate more or less some difficulties from the beginning in terms of integrating two wheels and four wheels into one specialized racing company and managing the activities.
For example, even in our parent company Honda Motor Corporation, motorcycles and automobiles are developed on their own and have few communications with each other, and so are the different cultures between them. And when I started managing both of them, I found out that they have their strong points and some points to improve each other.
For two wheels, HRC has a lot of accumulated experience through its long racing history. Motorsports and business have strong links, which makes the most of our products such as one-make races and so on.
On the other hand, although four wheels has excellent technology, the idea of what to do with them in the context of motorsports as a whole and their links to the business have some room to improve. Therefore, I was reminded that complementing their strong points and points to improve between two wheels and four wheels is very important.
Q: You just mentioned that the strong point of two-wheeled racing is having a lot of accumulated experience through its long racing history. So, what is the weakness and points to improve for two wheels in HRC?
KW: Setting aside describing it as a "weakness," I think we should have done technical communication between two and four wheels more proactively even earlier. Actually, we had it. But from the current viewpoint that we have intense communications, it makes me feel that it was not enough in the past. For example, maybe two wheels tended to stick with their own ideas, which might have restricted their way of thinking about new technology. Now four-wheeled technology translates more and more to two wheels in aerodynamics and engine combustion, then they produce many interesting ideas that are completely different from those in the past. The synergy effect between two and four wheels is creating a very good stimulus for two-wheeled activities.
Q: You also mentioned that two wheels and four wheels have different cultures. Does that affect something in technological communications?
KW: Originally, two and four wheels have been going their own way. In that sense, I understand that the two-wheel staff do not want four-wheel people to meddle with their field, and vice versa. Therefore, we management side should not push them to do things, but prepare the environment so they can voluntarily choose things when they see the perspectives in front of them. What we should not do in the first place is to force two-wheel engineers, saying “You have to use this four-wheel technology.”
Q: After you were appointed the HRC president, we often saw you in your team garage on race weekends. I remember seeing you in the paddock at Portimao, and you came to Mugello, too. And I saw you on the TV screen at the Red Bull Ring for the Formula One race. Is it because of your commitment to the on-site racing activities?
KW: Well, it is true that I love the racing paddock. But in reality, we have a pile of things to be coordinated and discussed. So, it is not just a courtesy call at all. There are many things to be sorted out here and there, both in MotoGP and Formula One.
Q: And this is what I wanted to hear from you. HRC is struggling now in MotoGP, experiencing one of the lowest performances in its history. I don’t remember witnessing such grim struggles from HRC in the past. Probably, there are complicated reasons for it, but from your point of view, why do you have to struggle now like this?
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KW: It is difficult to pinpoint one simple reason. Maybe, one of the reasons for this is that we have been a little bit complacent about our past achievements and have not made drastic changes in our methods. For sure, we are trying hard and giving our best, but our development method has been building things up step-by-step rather than making massive changes. While we are making evolution step-by-step, our competitors may have changed their development methods more aggressively and drastically. That made them a huge step forward and pulled us away, who are making steady and step-by-step development.
Q: So, the gap became apparent in these few years, I assume. If it is the case, when did it start? I mean, how long have you been carrying the root of these problems?
KW: Well..., it is difficult to identify exactly when it started, maybe it was a long ago, I think. I mean, we haven’t changed. As I said, accumulation has been our method. On the other hand, our competitors made a big change to things, I’m guessing.
Q: Was it some external factor that made your competitiveness lower, or was it some internal factor in Honda that brought your current struggle?
KW: It is difficult to say…, but I think both of them. For example, the development in four wheel racing has changed a lot. By making the most of extensive data, they are pretty much ready for the simulation at the stage of producing a racing machine. On the other hand, in motorcycle development, they use a lot of data for sure, but its method seems to be a traditional one to build up things by making prototypes and asking for opinions. Although I wouldn’t say these methods are not good, maybe we have to use data more extensively and effectively.
Q: To make it happen, do you think something in the two-wheel organization has to make a big change?
KW: Now we are working on it. For example, it would be possible to adopt the four wheels development workflow into two wheels through their collaboration.
Q: In the past, people used to say, “Honda is too strong, and they make races boring.” In fact, Honda had dominated in the MotoGP paddock. In the 1990s when Mick Doohan achieved five years of successive titles with NSR500, other NSRs were also formidable, and people described it as the “NSR Cup.”
When Valentino Rossi arrived in the premier category, Honda continued domination in the early days of the 4stroke 990cc era. And Rossi's charismatic popularity was escalated by his move to Yamaha to accomplish “the mission impossible” task of defeating the Goliath.
And another genius, Marc Marquez came to MotoGP, which made Honda rule the world again in the 2010s.
But now all is gone to the past. Honda is currently struggling in an unprecedented and bottomless swamp. This desperate slump made some rumors circulate, such as Marquez would leave Honda. How does Watanabe-san see the current harsh situation surrounding them?
KW: We realize this is a very acute crisis for us. As the whole Honda group, we, including Honda Motor Corporation president Toshihiro Mibe, take it very seriously. We understand we have to cope with it to solve this situation as soon as possible.
Q: Having said that, how long will it take, do you expect?
KW: It will not be an easy thing, for sure. Now we are working very hard to develop the 2024 bike, and there are many things we have to decide now. At the same time, we are also trying very hard to improve to find every single problem we have now. If we can make everything right, we will be able to produce a competitive bike for the 2024 season. But if you ask whether I’m confident to do it, to be honest, I have to say we are still on the way.
Q: With this tough situation, maybe as you know, there are many rumors circulated here and there. Among them, there is gossip that Marquez will move to another manufacturer next year. Although he immediately denied it, and apart from its credibility, it shows very well about Honda’s current situation.
KW: Yes, I agree with you that these rumors are a reflection of our current situation.
Q: I’m sorry, this may sound very rude to you, but I get the impression that these rumors and gossip are as if everyone wants to escape a sinking ship. If these rumors are groundless, what do you think you have to do to break out of this situation?
KW: The only way is to make a fast bike that can win races. Whenever I go to the MotoGP paddock, I always speak with Marc, frankly but seriously. And I tell him, "We know we have to produce and deliver the bike you want. We will do it as fast as we can.” And we also tell him, "We understand you have your own timeline, and if it doesn't match ours, then just maybe, we each have to make our own decisions.
However, both he and we see the same goal to agree that “let’s work together. We never give up till the end.” Therefore, we have never talked about ending (the contract) at all.
Q: Among the various gossip circulating, some say that Honda may be withdrawing from MotoGP.
KW: OK. I can categorically deny that rumor. We will never withdraw.
Q: At the beginning of this interview, you mentioned Honda’s style has been to work step-by-step. Looking back at the past, Honda had very original ideas and turned them into reality to fight against competitors with the adamant attitude that “We will win with these technologies that no one else but us can do.” Oval pistons for the NR500, Mick Doohan’s screamer engine, the 990cc five-cylinder four-stroke MotoGP engine with its crazy idea of a 75.5 degrees V angle to eliminate the need for a balance shaft. You also invented the Unit Pro-link system for the RC211V. Seamless shift was another innovation that Honda brought in MotoGP, and all other manufacturers followed this technology. So, why are there no such original ideas and innovations coming out of Honda today?
KW: It is a very difficult question to answer… When we returned to Formula One for the fourth-era activities (2015-21), our technology level was so horrible. We found out that four-wheel engineers alone are not enough to develop for four wheels, so we brought our jet branch in (for the development). When the four-wheel engineers struggled to find the solution for turbos and other technologies, they asked questions to the jet engineers and got replies immediately. It was because the jet engineers had had similar problems in the past. Therefore, when we make the most of our all Honda power, including two and four wheels, we will be able to have a wider perspective, and I believe it will bring us new technology.
Q: So, you are preparing to produce something innovative now?
KW: I mean, we are laying the basis for it and making an environment now. I am not the engineer working on-site, so I do not give them directions. By merging different perspectives, we will be able to have good hints.
Q: In order to break out of the current tough situation, you will have to invest the five resources for the management (personnel, money, materials, information, and time) as much as you can. Have you already started doing that?
KW: We are preparing to do that.
Q: Could you explain something specifically? For example, you would increase the budget, or add more people for the development?
KW: Budget and staff are the areas we can take care of immediately. In terms of increasing staff, we are strengthening our development personnel. We increased it by a greater number than we have done in any other year in MotoGP recently. While we have to improve this year’s bike, we also have to develop next year’s bike. By increasing the number of development staff, we can separate them very clearly so that there is no worry or confusion about what we have to do now and what we have to prepare for next year.
About the capital investments, now we can use the four-wheel facilities and have valuable options for improvement while keeping an eye on how much will be needed in the future.
Q: One of the hottest topics in the current MotoGP paddock regarding the Japanese manufacturers is whether they should be allowed to have concessions. To grant concessions to Honda and Yamaha, the technical regulations have to be amended, and to change the regulation, the unanimous agreement of all manufacturers (Ducati, Aprilia, KTM, Honda, and Yamaha) is needed. In any case, how does Honda, the biggest party concerned in this matter, see this treatment?
KW: The discussion should progress with all the agreement of all participants (manufacturers). We will obviously accept the decision and follow that direction. As far as we are concerned, we would appreciate it if we were granted concessions because it will help our development. If we do not have appropriate opportunities for development, it could affect consistent race management in the paddock, and our riders would suffer from it.
Q: Some say such treatment humiliates Honda’s dignity. Will HRC put more importance on the pragmatic side than honor?
KW: As I said, if that is the consensus of everyone that we get the opportunity, we will not refrain from using it. More bluntly, if we are offered concessions, we will accept them.
Q: Do you think Honda and Yamaha’s struggle in MotoGP is a coincidence, that it just happened to be the two Japanese manufacturers? In various industries, we see Japanese manufacturers’ declining presence, market share, and competitiveness, including semiconductors, consumer electronics, and so on. It seems that what is happening in MotoGP now may be evidence of something happening in wider global industrial trends.
KW: I don’t think so. It is not the case and this is just an individual problem. What is happening in MotoGP is simply down to our way of doing things. When you look at Formula One, you will find our technology helped a lot to win the championship. In the production vehicle market, Toyota sells a large number of cars all over the world. These facts clearly prove that Japanese technology is not falling. Therefore, I think what is happening here is merely a result of our methodologies.
Q: When we look beyond MotoGP to take a wider view of the whole automotive industry, we can easily understand that they are going ahead in the direction of carbon neutrality. If the racing world is willing to keep pace with this mega-trend toward a sustainable society, in what way and how much does motorsport, which uses combustion engines and places a huge stress on the environment, and the activities of HRC, that makes their business from motorsports, have to change in order to adapt the society to come?
KW: Without any doubt, we must move in the direction of carbon neutrality, or we will not be able to continue (racing) in the future. In the meantime, we have to consider carefully for now whether we go in the direction of EV racing or using carbon-neutral fuel, which has a lower impact on the environment with combustion engines.
In HRC’s four concepts that I explained to you in the beginning, one of the themes is contributing to Honda's motorcycle and automobile business through motorsports activities. Since Honda Motor Corporation’s business is geared in the direction of EVs, we need to learn and enhance its technology by taking advantage of racing activities. Having said that, racing should be entertaining. In that sense, it is true that it is hard to achieve that following only the EV direction. Therefore, I think our outline for the time being is dealing with carbon neutrality by using combustion engines while studying EVs gradually, so that we can contribute to Honda Motor Corporation’s business with these activities.
Q: In terms of underlying technologies, what can you do for the production of EVs and a carbon neutral society? There is very little information and few announcements from manufacturers about them so far, and it is very hard to imagine what the future of production motorcycles will be. How will the racing activities contribute to the production technology for the future?
KW: I believe that we can do extensive research for carbon-neutral fuel through racing activities. We can also research and develop small and high-power motors in racing activities. And as is the case in Formula One, we can develop batteries. So, I think we can do many things to contribute to our business via racing.
Q: You just mentioned that “racing should be entertaining.” Do you think there are some conflicts between the direction toward a sustainable society and motorsports racing?
KW: No, I believe there shouldn't be any.
Q: This is just my personal view, but I had an impression that motorsports, both two wheels and four wheels, originally had something of an outlaw image, which made these sports very attractive. By going in the direction of “eco-friendly” and “sustainable society,” it seems that some of these wild charms are fading away, and it becomes more and more harmless and bland.
KW: Maybe you are right. However, if we do not overcome these challenges with technology, racing will not be able to survive in the future. Therefore, we will persistently pursue it through our R&D and racing activities. And through these activities, keeping our eye on EVs and using combustion engines and other possible measures, we will strive for the direction to be for the future.
After the interview
From the viewpoint of a journalist, I had an impression of the former leaders in HRC as stubborn, tough, and determined but also friendly, frank, and open-minded people. In short, they were the boss of artisans who had craftsmanship.
On the contrary, Watanabe-san made me feel more sincere and honest person rather than a tough-looking craftsman. Even when I asked him very rude questions, he never lost his composure and answered in a very polite manner. When you know his career path, from European Four-wheel Business Manager to Brand Communication Manager and then taking his current position, it is easy to understand his communicative and upright character. It will be interesting to see how Watanabe-san will demonstrate his management skills to unite two-wheel and four-wheel engineers and get out of the current difficult period to rebuild HRC’s competitiveness.
In the interview, he explained his methods to have more communication between engineers from the two- and four-wheels divisions, to bring back Honda's reputation for being formidable by making drastic changes, not by a traditional step-by-step approach. We haven't yet seen how they might achieve this, but as he also explained in the interview, this is a task that will need some considerable time. And probably, there will also be some degree of trial and error during its process.
On the day after this interview, HRC dominated all through the Suzuka 8 Hour race and clinched the victory. And, to make it happen also in MotoGP, there is no time to bask in the afterglow of Suzuka. Koji Watanabe and the HRC people knew this better than anyone else.
