jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Aug 4, 2021 18:47:35 GMT -8
Alpine were already not using the full energy allowance due to running a smaller fuel tank. Alpine can't run a larger fuel tank due to grandfathering agreements and because the Oreca/Rebellion chassis that the Alpine is based off of can't physically accept a larger tank, either. This just takes them on paper to where they are in actual practice. Not really, they've been adding weight and cutting power to the P2 class from season start. As the article says the FIA, WEC and ACO want to make sure the old cars don't over shadow the new ones.
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chernaudi
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Post by chernaudi on Aug 5, 2021 7:15:05 GMT -8
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Aug 5, 2021 7:21:05 GMT -8
Another forum ^ opinion? Gospel, I tell ya!
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Aug 6, 2021 16:12:22 GMT -8
In the article it clearly states the goal is to widen the gap between the two classes, that's straight from the organizers mouths. They are artificially trying to recreate the same kind of performance gap the P1's had over P2, and not just by merely uncorking the LDMh cars. Which is exactly what happened between Spa and Monza. sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/toyota-hypercar-deficit-to-lmp2-should-be-reviewed/And 2WD drive LDM cars like the Alpine and Glickenhuas are carrying hundreds of pounds of weight simply to give the hybrids an advantage. As much as i hope the whole category eventually succeeds it's not stating of under the best light IMHO. We can only hope out of the box designs like the Peugeot don't get BOPed to hell simply for knowing how to read a rule book.
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chernaudi
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Post by chernaudi on Aug 6, 2021 17:26:33 GMT -8
That's the "genie" the ACO and IMSA uncorked in 2006 when Audi showed up with a diesel and was the only factory team in LMP1 in the ALMS at the time (Peugeot were in the same seat in the LMS in 2007, also with a diesel). Then the ACO opened up a different can of worms with hybrids--again, another tech that only factory teams were able to exploit to a decent degree. They tried to various degree help out privateer teams with BOP, but even that often was little help against factory teams with their tech, money, resources, and their basically bespoke cars.
Back to Alpine, even if the ACO were like "you can fit a bigger fuel tank", they can't because the car can't really use one to begin with.
And you do also have to remember that even Glickenhaus is running at a rather portly 1030kg (minimum for actual LMH/LMDH cars), as that's what the ACO wanted (back when Aston Martin showed interest in the class with the thus far stillborn Valkyrie hypercar). Even though the AMR program died, the ACO lowered max desired engine power, but didn't lower the minimum wight in response. That's also why the Alpine is running at 950kg this year. For comparison to Glickenhaus, the Toyota is running at 1060+kg to balance it performance-wise vs Glickenhaus, which I believe are also allowed slightly more fuel capacity (at Monza Glickenhaus usually did a lap more per stint than Toyota did).
So far, however, Alpine are the only car to not have any apparent durability/reliability issues. There's been rumors of Toyota having braking issues possibly related to ERS/brake by wire performance. Neither should be new to Toyota, given that all of their previous LMP1 cars have been hybrids, and that the TS040 and -050 relied more on the hybrid for motive power, which meant that ERS and brake by wire was more important. However, the GR010 is much heavier than it's predecessors, and has a smaller ERS system that does less harvesting, and hence has less braking effect when counted by itself.
There's no denying that it does seem that the Toyota does have issues with consistency with braking performance, and possibly other minor glitches. Their only trouble free race has been Algarve. At Spa, one car lost time due to an off track excursion cause by a brake issue, and at Monza one car stalled briefly on track due to an electronic glitch, and the other had a fuel system issue (also had to have the left front suspension changed due to an improperly tightened wheel).
And even sans hybrid, Glickenhaus had issues at Monza, mostly with brakes that knocked one car out of contention for an overall podium. Of course, it can be argued that it was to due the car being so heavy on a track with tons of heavy braking (and no ERS to assist with braking), or it was a fluke problem with either brakes that were bad due to QC on the brake parts, or, like with the Toyota left front issue, an error on the part of fitting the parts to begin with.
Problem with making any definite analysis without the teams being clear on what happened, is that, one, the Toyota and Glickenhaus are still new cars, two, they were sort of rushed due to the ACO being late with finalizing full tech regs, and three, I do think that the LMH/LMDH cars being so much heavier and with reduced aero efficiency (namely reduced downforce due to reliance on one main aero package) has pushed everyone into unfamiliar territory. The increased weight will hopefully make the cars cheaper and simpler, but it has it's own knock-on effects, too. Namely, more weight/mass means more inertia--objects at rest want to remain at rest, and objects in motion want to stay in motion, and more weight and mass, more inertia.
This is where I think that the likes of Audi and Porsche, as well as Peugeot and Ferrari will have an advantage. Not just can they see what Toyota and Glickenhaus have done, but you also have to consider that in the case of Audi Sport and Porsche Motorsport (as well as ultimately likely Lamborghini) will have a pretty sorted car by 2023. Porsche are expected to be testing their Multimatic sourced car starting very late this year or early next year, Audi (who will be using the same basic chassis) probably won't be far behind, and they effectively will have almost a year to test, develop and homologate their cars, which is longer than Toyota and Glickenhaus got this go around. However, LMH/LMDH cars are allowed one major joker upgrade a season per a 5 yeear homogation cycle, and can even homologate a new car once per cycle (twice if you count the initial homolgation).
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Post by truenorth on Aug 10, 2021 14:14:34 GMT -8
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Aug 11, 2021 7:34:53 GMT -8
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Post by truenorth on Aug 14, 2021 6:03:48 GMT -8
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Post by truenorth on Aug 16, 2021 9:06:00 GMT -8
The Test Day for the 2021 24 Hours of Le Mans ended yesterday at 19:00. The session is always an opportunity to perfect race preparations and gather precious data. The #708 Glickenhaus 007 LMH HYPERCAR clocked the fastest lap of the day – 03:29.115 thanks to Olivier Pla, visibly on form. www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/24-hours-of-le-mans-how-was-test-day-55387
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Aug 17, 2021 23:41:52 GMT -8
Hypercar, LMH, and LMDH – The State Of Play – Who’s In, Who’s Out?With What And When?As we approach the 2021 Le Mans 24 Hours it seems the right time to take stock of how things are developing with an exciting emerging picture for sportscar racing worldwide with new rules, new cars, and new racing opportunities on the horizon. This promises a very significant boost to full season top-class numbers for both the FIA WEC and IMSA’s WeatherTech Sportscar Championship from 2023 – and the potential for even more significant growth in the entries for the blue riband events for both Championships as manufacturers and privateers take advantage of the soon to be full ‘converged’ new classes. For both WEC and IMSA full-season entries in double-figures are already certain, and looking set to be significantly into double figures as the interest still continues an upward growth track. For Le Mans and the Rolex 24 the numbers could be very significant indeed with manufacturer numbers getting towards double figures across the rulesets. More @ www.dailysportscar.com/2021/08/17/hypercar-lmh-and-lmdh-the-state-of-play-whos-in-whos-out.html?fbclid=IwAR0zooh6-aUm_dg6n6snTUpt67w8oDp_JXwmuLRYQzZa4ZdzXtA_cxSn2s0
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Aug 21, 2021 9:03:49 GMT -8
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Post by truenorth on Aug 24, 2021 6:41:45 GMT -8
US make cadillac will be returning to endurance racing in 2023, joining Toyota, Peugeot, Porsche, Ferrari, Audi, BMW, Acura, Glickenhaus and ByKolles in the new and already popular Hypercar class
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Aug 24, 2021 7:37:08 GMT -8
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Post by truenorth on Aug 24, 2021 8:25:35 GMT -8
Caddy and Vette P1 at Le Mans! Oh yeah!
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Aug 30, 2021 7:49:27 GMT -8
Audi drops plans for factory IMSA LMDh programAudi’s highly anticipated return to prototype racing in 2023 within the new LMDh ranks has undergone a surprising development. RACER has learned the German manufacturer will not campaign factory entries in IMSA’s WeatherTech SportsCar Championship, electing to focus on a sole factory program in the FIA World Endurance Championship. The change comes after the brand actively pursued a North American partner team to field LMDhs on its behalf. RACER understands conversations with those potential teams – at least one of which reached an advanced stage – were broken off by Audi after the decision was made to concentrate on the FIA WEC. racer.com/2021/08/30/audi-drops-plans-for-factory-imsa-lmdh-program/?fbclid=IwAR1bNhLaLwuwIDcXBhYAQ9GYXNrY9vV4-wEJL9rYd_LTBWpBDYVf7S7njoU
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Aug 30, 2021 7:50:25 GMT -8
However (from the same article) ...
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Post by Carlo_Carrera on Aug 30, 2021 8:40:35 GMT -8
It's weird that Audi would pursue two different race teams to run their respective effort. That has to be counterproductive.
If they went with one team running all the cars worldwide they could pool those resources when all those cars show up for Le Mans.
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Post by wilmywood8455 on Aug 30, 2021 8:42:50 GMT -8
It's weird that Audi would pursue two different race teams to run their respective effort. That has to be counterproductive. If they went with one team running all the cars worldwide they could pool those resources when all those cars show up for Le Mans. Well, as we used to say at the BMW store I worked at in the late 80s ... "you can always tell a German, you just can't tell him much'
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chernaudi
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Post by chernaudi on Aug 30, 2021 9:57:17 GMT -8
It's weird that Audi would pursue two different race teams to run their respective effort. That has to be counterproductive. If they went with one team running all the cars worldwide they could pool those resources when all those cars show up for Le Mans. Audi did that in 2008 when Champion ran the ALMS team and Joest ran the LMS team, as well as at LM and Sebring. The problem is of funding from the Audi Sport standpoint. 2008 was also when Audi Sport and Audi AG in Germany wanted to drift away from funding regional programs (ALMS, LMS) in their entirety at the factory level, and support primarily worldwide programs (LM24, the ACO's LM Intercontinental Cup, which became the ACO/FIA World Endurance Championship). The ALMS or LMS programs would become the responsibility as far as funding by the regional importers.
Audi of America said no to funding most of the cost of a full season ALMS program, so Audi Sport concentrated on LM and ALMS endurance races, and the customer focused R8 V10 GT3 program as well as DTM. And that's been status quo ever since. If Audi of America again getting cold feet on paying for the majority of the cost for an IMSA program is the problem here, the only way that Audi will run in LMDH is if AoA change their mind, have a management shake up, Audi AG/Audi Sport change their mind, or a customer team will run the cars (which Audi Sport is willing to support). Only issue there is would Audi Sport pay the $1 million marketing fee that Jim France insists that OEMs pay IMSA, or would the team(s) have to?
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Aug 31, 2021 11:15:33 GMT -8
It's weird that Audi would pursue two different race teams to run their respective effort. That has to be counterproductive. If they went with one team running all the cars worldwide they could pool those resources when all those cars show up for Le Mans. I guess they realized that Daytona and Sebring are all they really care about representing, and those tracks are probably going to end up on WEC's calendar anyway.
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