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Post by mikey on Aug 29, 2022 9:05:15 GMT -8
I hope he gets a grid spot penalty but don't know if they still can after the Stewards said 'no action required', I'm guessing that means the the person causing the problem got the short end of the stick. Yeah the penalty process is not supposed to be based on the outcome, but imho Lewis putting himself out of the race with the mistake is what saved him from a grid penalty coming up. And it's done. They won't add a penalty now. They also mentioned that it was the first lap ... but imho the first lap excuse is bs once the cars have spread out that much. I agree with your first lap bs as well, are they saying someone can kamikaze thru the field and get to the front and blame it all on 'first lap jitters or excitement'? These are advertised as the very best drivers in the World and to say that they 'need' an excuse to get their elbows out and force their way thru is stupid and below them. It also opens everything back up to 'someones judgement call' and until they have permanent Stewards that's not a good thing. As for permanent Stewards I would be okay with a group of people taking this set of races and another group of people taking that set of races etc, doing it near where they live or travel makes sense to get consistency in the Stewards and if they have a group they can call on at every race, and of course a back-up in these Covid etc times, makes sense BUT it also means they can then be trained on what to look for from a Stewards perspective and not so much a drivers perspective as to what the Rules are. A former driver, like Brundle, can not only see when a car takes a bad line and ruins the next 3 corners but he can also see that that lunge was never going to work and that was driver error that caused that accident.
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Post by olderguysrule on Aug 29, 2022 9:16:36 GMT -8
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Post by olderguysrule on Aug 29, 2022 9:27:13 GMT -8
The you tube click bait blogger crowd has shifted it's focus a bit today. Now it's all about the red bulls are cheating or what ever. :-) There's a number of em that I only read the headlines because if ya click on the articles they'll get more money. But the jist is that the ded cows were caught cheating again. But if ya were to read the article it would say nothing of the sort. :-)
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Post by pushtopass on Aug 29, 2022 10:04:12 GMT -8
Yeah the penalty process is not supposed to be based on the outcome, but imho Lewis putting himself out of the race with the mistake is what saved him from a grid penalty coming up. And it's done. They won't add a penalty now. They also mentioned that it was the first lap ... but imho the first lap excuse is bs once the cars have spread out that much. I agree with your first lap bs as well, are they saying someone can kamikaze thru the field and get to the front and blame it all on 'first lap jitters or excitement'? These are advertised as the very best drivers in the World and to say that they 'need' an excuse to get their elbows out and force their way thru is stupid and below them. It also opens everything back up to 'someones judgement call' and until they have permanent Stewards that's not a good thing. As for permanent Stewards I would be okay with a group of people taking this set of races and another group of people taking that set of races etc, doing it near where they live or travel makes sense to get consistency in the Stewards and if they have a group they can call on at every race, and of course a back-up in these Covid etc times, makes sense BUT it also means they can then be trained on what to look for from a Stewards perspective and not so much a drivers perspective as to what the Rules are. A former driver, like Brundle, can not only see when a car takes a bad line and ruins the next 3 corners but he can also see that that lunge was never going to work and that was driver error that caused that accident. To me, something can be written off as a "first lap" incident and escape penalties when the drivers involved are constrained in their actions by other cars around them. For instance, you cannot necessary hit the brakes as hard as you might want to when there is a line of cars RIGHT behind you at the second corner. So you may end up carrying too much speed. Or one car pushes someone wide, not realizing that there is someone outside of that other car. And so on. This incident seemed "in the clear". They were both free to do what they wanted to and Lewis turning in that much wasn't impacted by other cars (even Alonso's!). When you don't crack down on these things, they propagate.
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r60man
Full Member
Posts: 1,244
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Post by r60man on Aug 29, 2022 10:11:57 GMT -8
I agree with your first lap bs as well, are they saying someone can kamikaze thru the field and get to the front and blame it all on 'first lap jitters or excitement'? These are advertised as the very best drivers in the World and to say that they 'need' an excuse to get their elbows out and force their way thru is stupid and below them. It also opens everything back up to 'someones judgement call' and until they have permanent Stewards that's not a good thing. As for permanent Stewards I would be okay with a group of people taking this set of races and another group of people taking that set of races etc, doing it near where they live or travel makes sense to get consistency in the Stewards and if they have a group they can call on at every race, and of course a back-up in these Covid etc times, makes sense BUT it also means they can then be trained on what to look for from a Stewards perspective and not so much a drivers perspective as to what the Rules are. A former driver, like Brundle, can not only see when a car takes a bad line and ruins the next 3 corners but he can also see that that lunge was never going to work and that was driver error that caused that accident. To me, something can be written off as a "first lap" incident and escape penalties when the drivers involved are constrained in their actions by other cars around them. For instance, you cannot necessary hit the brakes as hard as you might want to when there is a line of cars RIGHT behind you at the second corner. So you may end up carrying too much speed. Or one car pushes someone wide, not realizing that there is someone outside of that other car. And so on. This incident seemed "in the clear". They were both free to do what they wanted to and Lewis turning in that much wasn't impacted by other cars (even Alonso's!). When you don't crack down on these things, they propagate. The only reason that Lewis was not penalized is because his boneheaded mistake lead to his retirement, and not Alonso's. Had Alonso have to retire due to damage in the incident Lewis would have most likely be given a grid spot penalty for the next race, and rightly so. We have seen him get away with taking drivers out (Silverstone comes to mind) and not have anything happen. Those times are over I think. That is good for the integrity of the sport.
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Post by thirddegree on Aug 29, 2022 10:21:54 GMT -8
If Alonso did it to Hamilton, and only Alonso were to retire, would he have escaped a penalty?
I'm not convinced he would.
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Post by olderguysrule on Aug 29, 2022 10:29:47 GMT -8
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Post by pushtopass on Aug 29, 2022 11:06:55 GMT -8
To me, something can be written off as a "first lap" incident and escape penalties when the drivers involved are constrained in their actions by other cars around them. For instance, you cannot necessary hit the brakes as hard as you might want to when there is a line of cars RIGHT behind you at the second corner. So you may end up carrying too much speed. Or one car pushes someone wide, not realizing that there is someone outside of that other car. And so on. This incident seemed "in the clear". They were both free to do what they wanted to and Lewis turning in that much wasn't impacted by other cars (even Alonso's!). When you don't crack down on these things, they propagate. The only reason that Lewis was not penalized is because his boneheaded mistake lead to his retirement, and not Alonso's. Had Alonso have to retire due to damage in the incident Lewis would have most likely be given a grid spot penalty for the next race, and rightly so. We have seen him get away with taking drivers out (Silverstone comes to mind) and not have anything happen. Those times are over I think. That is good for the integrity of the sport. Yes, but I still think he should have been penalized. Outcomes are not supposed to matter for the penalties. I don't think it was deliberate (he had more to lose there), just boneheaded. But boneheaded deserves a penalty.
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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 29, 2022 12:30:07 GMT -8
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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 29, 2022 12:40:30 GMT -8
Oh my. Alonso waving at Lewis by his retired car...
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/wzxubi/alonso_waves_to_hamilton_after_he_retires_from/
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Post by kingfisher on Aug 29, 2022 22:54:11 GMT -8
So Ferrari actually believed that even though they were over .6 slower for the entire weekend that somehow LeClerc could set a faster lap than MAX had. Talk about arrogant. Max is on his was to sewing this up in Japan That's because Mattia Bonobo and the pitwall are all Ferraritards. Tire choice for the start, losing out yet on another misguided attempt to get an additional point at the cost of points and on and on and on - - Regarding the non call on penalizing Lewis, the stewards should be sanctioned and called to account. Only hope that teams call for scrutiny of the 'officials' decision to intentionally contravene the regulations.
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jfme
Full Member
Posts: 576
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Post by jfme on Aug 30, 2022 3:40:40 GMT -8
Oh my. Alonso waving at Lewis by his retired car... https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/wzxubi/alonso_waves_to_hamilton_after_he_retires_from/ Lulu is a drama queen. Now even Toto is involved in the soap opera to condem Alonso and save Hamilton's ego and mental trauma from his harsh words. Once again, no penalty for this obvious violation. Yet the FIA throws the book when any other driver does the same. Even if he apologies, tries to ammend (return the place) or the other driver does not DNF.
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Post by thirddegree on Aug 30, 2022 6:51:10 GMT -8
Oh my. Alonso waving at Lewis by his retired car... https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/wzxubi/alonso_waves_to_hamilton_after_he_retires_from/ Lulu is a drama queen. Now even Toto is involved in the soap opera to condem Alonso and save Hamilton's ego and mental trauma from his harsh words. Once again, no penalty for this obvious violation. Yet the FIA throws the book when any other driver does the same. Even if he apologies, tries to ammend (return the place) or the other driver does not DNF. All part of the weekly circus known as the FIA Mercedes Cup Series.
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Post by mikey on Aug 30, 2022 8:17:50 GMT -8
Lulu is a drama queen. Now even Toto is involved in the soap opera to condem Alonso and save Hamilton's ego and mental trauma from his harsh words. Once again, no penalty for this obvious violation. Yet the FIA throws the book when any other driver does the same. Even if he apologies, tries to ammend (return the place) or the other driver does not DNF. All part of the weekly circus known as the FIA Mercedes Cup Series. Fortunately that seems like it's about to change to something else!!
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Post by wayfast on Aug 30, 2022 15:22:38 GMT -8
A lot of Lewis fans and the media are worked up over Alonso's comment on the radio after the crash. These people must be new to racing and never heard a driver bash another driver after an incident. Fred must be the first one ever to do it according to the Lewis fans and media.
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Post by hairyscotsman on Aug 30, 2022 15:32:44 GMT -8
A lot of Lewis fans and the media are worked up over Alonso's comment on the radio after the crash. These people must be new to racing and never heard a driver bash another driver after an incident. Fred must be the first one ever to do it according to the Lewis fans and media. Yep. Oh, the injustice of it all! They're just trying to change the subject. Like so many other things that are said and done, it happens all the time ... but when Alonso does it, and/or if it's directed at LuLu, it's the end of the world.
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Post by overboost on Aug 30, 2022 18:04:35 GMT -8
Is Lewis still walking down that lonely dirt road?
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jmjgt
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Post by jmjgt on Aug 30, 2022 18:11:35 GMT -8
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